C'mon. Be nice you blokes.

[old man emu]

As a Moderator I had to look into a complaint arising from a bit of back 'n' forth between two members on a topic. 

 

As a result of looking into that, and from what I have experienced here and elsewhere, I have formed the opinion that, although these forums allow people to express their deeply felt opinions in writing, the method fails to replace face-to-face discussion where tone of voice, and physical expression play a large part in carrying meaning. It is easy to get very strong in presenting one's opinions, to the extent that, in written format, they nearly reach the stage of throwing down the gauntlet. 

 

So, please consider how your posts will be read by others, especially if the post is part of a two-way debate. Remember that a good debater attacks the content of the opposition's statements, not the deliverer. Not matter how hot under the collar you get, please don't get involved in personal attacks. If you do, your audience will go away and you will be the ultimate loser.

[spacesailor]

Well l suppose I too am guilty of upsetting people.

BUT

It,s not malicious,  just poor communication skills.

BUT l hope l,m getting better with thanks to you all, 

AND apologies to the ( hopfully ) few..

spacesailor

[Yenn]

Are you implying that politicians are not good debaters?

[pmccarthy]

They are mass debaters.

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Well l suppose I too am guilty of upsetting people.

BUT

It,s not malicious,  just poor communication skills.

BUT l hope l,m getting better with thanks to you all, 

AND apologies to the ( hopfully ) few..

spacesailor

I doubt you've upset anyone, spacey. As far as communication skills, I like your writing style - it has heaps of personality. Always look forward to your posts; they add a bit of style to the forum.

[octave]

There is nothing wrong with challenging ideas the problem comes when "I disagree with your opinion" becomes "I disagree with your opinion therefore you are an idiot" or whatever.  There are people here I often disagree with but I have great respect for them if they can challenge the views of others with a polite  and reasonable argument.   

[facthunter]

OME got it right. Challenge the subject facts and NOT target the individual in a personal way.. IF you have an underlying agenda and a win at all costs view of it you  might JUST get a bit blinkered and over focussed. It's a shame when  the thing gets off the rails because a good discussion is a benefit for all of us.. 

   A LOOoong post is hard to respond to in detail.  There are some topics we don't want confusion on because I've seen an instance where it caused an accident not a day later.. so it can and does happen. Nev

[old man emu]

Spacey, your posts only annoy me because you keep using commas instead of apostrophes. A comma is made by hitting the key next to the key for the letter "M". The apostrophe is made by hitting the key beside the '"ENTER" key. The content of your posts is equal to that posted by the rest of us.

 

Long posts tend to run counter to the modern "15 seconds of attention" habit that we seem to have fallen into. A long post, containing several different points does breed long responses, further making the whole thread a bit of a bore.

[willedoo]

50 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Spacey, your posts only annoy me because you keep using commas instead of apostrophes. A comma is made by hitting the key next to the key for the letter "M". The apostrophe is made by hitting the key beside the '"ENTER" key. The content of your posts is equal to that posted by the rest of us.

What's annoying for some can be endearing for others. I love the way spacey writes; it's a cross between a short story and a cryptic crossword. Far more entertaining than the rest of us put together. I get a kick out of enterpreting spacey's posts. Once deciphered, there's good content there. On the other side of the coin, if writing is too perfect it becomes cold and impersonal and rather boring. I give spacey a thumbs up.

 

Another aspect with spacey's writing is that a right brain thinker and a left brain thinker would see it in quite different ways.

[spacesailor]

I,m ( oops there,s that commer Again  ), not using a keyboard, it pops up when required,  BUT

It has no ' apostrophe ' untill l hit the ' SYM ' button !.

Then l use it like quotation marks.

Hopping it,s not too distresful. ( distressful is not in the word checker dictionary ).

spacesailor

[octave]

This is probably the time and place to say that at least for the foreseeable future I am retiring from the forum.     I have been considering this off and on for a while now but recently I reached out in  a private message to a member to explain my point of view over a discussion we were having. What I got back in reply was quite a nasty attack on me as a person.   I think the majority of people here are great and I have enjoyed chatting and debating with those who hold different views.  I have been a member here since 2007 and goodness knows I have been involved in spirited debates but I believe this is pretty much the first time my character has been questioned in this way. 

 

Anyway 

Cheers folks - over and out

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by octave

[spacesailor]

octave

We will Miss you, more than you realize, many thanks for your interesting words. 

spacesailor

[pmccarthy]

Octave I am very sorry to hear it. You have been a voice of reason and rationality.

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Octave , really sad to hear that you have decided to up sticks as you are, as PM beat me to it, a voice of reason,, as well as compassion.

 

All the best and hope  it's not too long before you return.

 

Safe flying, too.

 

JA

[willedoo]

Likewise octave, sad to see you go. I can understand why; it's disappointing when debates get personal.

[nomadpete]

Guys, this is a really great fourm. Unfortunately there are not many of us taking advantage of it. Many people have been missing out on the cameraderie that we have. I'm saddened to see one of us feeling so offended that they are leaving us.

All of you have been important to me. In this age of social isolation this forum has been instrumental in holding up my personal self. (I' m not sure how to express that).

All i can say is.....

 

Thank you friends.

 

[red750]

Let me join the chorus and say sorry you feel you need a break. OME felt the same, but came back after a break, hope you do the same. Your wise input will be missed.

[old man emu]

Bugger!

I know exactly how Octave feels, having copped the same elsewhere, and a lot of you know what I'm talking about. 

 

But what are Moderators to do? Where we see some untoward behaviour, do we come down like a ton of bricks, or do we try to be adult and after explaining what has caused a complaint, request that the behaviour does not recur. The first approach would soon make these forums unpopular because they would exist in a totalitarian state.  The second assumes that people are amenable to maintaining certain standards.

 

I'm telling you that one person's posts have had me thinking that they were a bit more intense in expressing their beliefs than the rest of us, and that made me wonder when the fundament would hit the air circulator. It seems that it has and someone has been impacted by a lump of it. I feel that the right thing for me to do is to follow the "no names, no pack drill" approach  for the time being, but let it be known that if there is a recurrence, entitlements will be revoked.

[Marty_d]

Octave, there aren't many people (not only on this forum but in outside life too) whose viewpoint on many things pretty much aligns 100% with mine, but you are one of them.  

I don't think I've seen a single post of yours that I don't agree with.

As Peter says I hope you have a break and come back, this place will be far poorer without you.

[onetrack]

Octave, I think we all know how you feel. Personal attacks on forums are a major problem. I've had plenty, but managed to brush most of them off, as often the attacks are a result of someone having an inferiority complex, or just being an angry, aggressive and arrogant person.

I have only had one experience where one forum user attacked me relentlessly. He made a point of denigrating my knowledge and post content on a daily basis. As soon as I posted some advice, there was d***head, aggrandising himself as the forum guru, and sneeringly denigrating my latest post and advice, and even calling me a BS artist. Needless to say, he was American.

I gave up on that forum, and even though numerous other posters sprang to my defence, he was allowed to continue posting. As a result of the poor moderation of that forum, I left, never to return.

I don't miss the aggravation one iota, and I believe the individual has some psychiatric or personality fault, that simply means he enjoys belittling others. The worlds full of them, but we don't need to put up with their crap.

[Jerry_Atrick]

@old man emu, I think the moderation is just right.. Starting a thread to remind people that personal attacks is not acceptable is a good warning point.

 

If, in the public forums though, it appears to be getting a little heated, than maybe a gentle reminder to all to play the ball and not the man would be not considered coming down like a ton of bricks.

 

And maybe we all can play out part in that when we see it, we can also pitch in and call it out?

[Old Koreelah]

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

…I believe the individual has some psychiatric or personality fault, that simply means he enjoys belittling others. The worlds full of them, but we don't need to put up with their crap.

In a face-to-face realm that person would be trimmed up by social forces very quickly. Most species have evolved ways to limit the extremes of individual behaviour. Bonobo troopes are run by females who control agressiveness with sex; no fights, but a lot of bonking.

 

Our species is pretty new to internet forums, so some people tend to go crazy with the power of anonymity. Long-suppressed aspects of their personality emerge and get out of control. But for the total political power they all acheived, Adolf Hitler, Genghis Khan and Joe Stalin would have been just ordinary misfits.

 

We don’t want our valued members copping abuse and harassment, but the opposite may be worse. When we all agree totally, Ian’s forum becomes an echo chamber.

[old man emu]

49 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

When we all agree totally, Ian’s forum becomes an echo chamber.

A good discussion results from the presentation of an idea and then the making of points for and against (if the discussion is adversarial). If the discussion involves the expansion of knowledge about an agreed topic, then usually it's always points for. Note that as soon as thing start being said against the point-scorer, then the discussion has reached its climax, and there is no further profit in it.

[Dax]

1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said:

Our species is pretty new to internet forums, so some people tend to go crazy with the power of anonymity. Long-suppressed aspects of their personality emerge and get out of control

In the past, just about all discussion was conducted in person and methods of control of discussions came down to brow beating or physical confrontation. This kept the cowards out of confrontation because they feared being taken to task physically, now they have the opportunity to express themselves as they would like without fear of physical reprisal. We see this with trolls who like to create havoc and attack people personally without contributing to a discussion. It's a dilemma for moderators as they have to determine whether to step in or let it go on and be worked out between those involved. It's hard to know how to deal with bitter twisted people, have personal experience contending with that approach and don't wish it on anyone.

 

I like this forum because threads can go off topic in interesting ways, but always seems to come back without any disturbance or moderation, adding quite a bit of extra knowledge to a subject. Personal attacks to me are a lack of consideration and acceptance of difference, something the human race is overflowing with and that's what makes the world go round.

 

I'm guilty of long posts, try to make them easier to read by presenting them in paragraphs so readers get a break, I read all posts no matter how long and enjoy their content. Just about everyone has a good story and represents the varying experiences in life we all have, which are always interesting to hear in my opinion.

 

To Spacy, have yet to read one of your posts I could class as being offensive or upsetting, your viewpoint is always interesting and enjoyable to read, as are most posts here.

[facthunter]

Octave has always shown  great  care in how he deals with a subject fairly.  Like others have said, it would be hard to object to any of his posts and he has always contributed in a constructive way. Providing reasons for his views, if appropriate.  It's sets a pretty high standard in my view.. Nev