octave

Does a baby? To me killing is abhorrent. Certainly, justifications can be made but there has to be proportionality otherwise you may as well use a nuclear weapon and wipe them all out. Anyway, I don't want to get drawn in so I will leave it to you folks, let me know when you have found the solution.

Just my 2 cents worth, I don't particularly have strong feelings either way regarding closing or continuing this thread. I do however find these sorts of conversations trying. People start out by saying "I am not saying all Vulcans are like this but...." It can then morph into (on all sides) sweeping statements. These issues are immensely complicated and people tend to have passionate beliefs. This is one reason I periodically disappear without a trace from the forum. I doubt that anyone will change anyone else's passionately held position. I heard a harrowing recording of a young girl in that part of the world. She was on a phone desperately pleading for help. She screamed that her family had been killed. When help got to her she had also been killed. I won't reveal the ethnicity of this girl because this does not change the value of the pain and suffering. I will say this though, either this girl was too young to be a terrorist or to even understand the issues or too young to be able to have any input into the government of Israel or the actions of the IDF. If my wife walks home from the station at night it is not terroism she fears.

Well, the 60-day sentence was served several years ago so a pardon is not such a big deal either way. Also, she is 71 so probably not worried about her job prospects

I am pretty sure that the one in the article is not contesting it and pled guilty from the start. I do know about others though.

The quote is about the right of people to overthrow a government that is attempting to establish absolute despotism. Despotism is a form of government where a single entity, usually an individual, has absolute power. There was never any evidence that the election was significantly flawed. There was no evidence that anyone was going to establish absolute despotism The only evidence that these people were acting on was Trump's assertion that he was robbed. Subsequently, numerous court cases were dismissed. Results of Lawsuits Regarding the 2020 Elections I am sure many people there did not involve themselves in violence however the point was to change the result. If we accept the premise that there were a few troublemakers string people up then why give a blanket pardon? Many of the people who were imprisoned were convicted on video evidence. Why pardon these particular people. Interestingly some people who were convicted have turned down their pardon, I guess some people still have integrity. Convicted US Capitol rioter turns down Trump pardon

Many elections in the past have been contested by the loser especially when margins are close. This has always been dealt with in a CIVILIZED way through the court system. Are you seriously justifying the actions of this moronic mob? Do you not have any sympathy for the policeman screaming in pain whilst being crushed in a door? If you are moved by this then perhaps we have nothing more to talk about.

I can't believe you think this innocuous line is such a big deal for you. Trump will not govern like Biden but will be different. What am I missing here? By the way, you haven't told me what you think about Trump's pardon of Jan 6 rioters including the violent ones?

GON I struggle to categorise "Trump will do things differently" as being negative, it surely is neutral. In any job I have been in when one boss leaves and another takes over often the departing boss will make a speech handing over the reins and saying the the new boss "will put their particular mark on the job. GON I assume that you don't think Trump is different from the presidents that came before. It seems that Trump and his supporters are great at name-calling but are amazingly thin-skinned such that an ambiguous comment like Wong's is so distressing.

It is obvious that Trump is not like any other and does do things differently. Trump would see this as a compliment, he doesn't pretend to be like any other president. Someone on here said we should judge Trump by what he does rather than what he says. Now he is president he is doing things that we can judge him for. Do you support pardons for violent Jan 6ers who assaulted police?

You sure seem to be obsessed with Penny Wong. Her job is to represent the best interests of Australia not her own personal feelings. It is not in our country's interest to get on the wrong side of this guy because we know that is not in our interests.

We have no idea if the victim and their family were asked and declined to comment, I guess people will come to different conclusions but this article makes me want to ask some of the questions that OME posed. I can't really see much opinion in this story. It seems mainly to be quotes. If the victim (who is probably traumatised) doesn't want to comment does that mean that no story is written or that no quotes are included?

Dont forget white supremacists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings

PM are you OK with Trump's pick for Health Secretary? An anti-vaxxer nut job. Do you believe the worst of the Jan 6 rioters (refer to https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/jan/10/police-officer-crushed-in-doorway-by-rioters-during-capitol-breach-video Do you believe it when Trump says this? Do you think in Springfield they are eating the daaawgs? (dogs)

Trump pardons give Jan 6 defendants nearly everything they wanted Police officer crushed in doorway by rioters during Capitol breach – video

I do find it somewhat sad that some of his supporters who are struggling in life believe that Billionaire Trump and his billionaire picks for positions in his administration will improve their lot. Does anyone really think Musk will do anything for them? No I think he and Trump and the other billionaires are in it for themselves (and I used to be a Musk fanboy) I saw an interview with a Trump supporter who said they were looking forward to Trump ending Obamacare. When the interviewer asked what they relied on for health care they said the ACA (Affordable Care Act.) They were shocked and dismayed when the interviewer pointed out that Obamacare is the colloquial name for the Affordable Care Act. Trump's talent is convincing people that things that will be bad for them will be good. When asked during the debate about his health care plan Trump said he "had a concept of a plan" As far as I am aware this is still the best he has but I guess time will tell.