The climate change debate continues.

[onetrack]

The link below is to W.A.'s latest and newest wind farm - Collgar, near Merredin, around 260-280 kms E of Perth. There are 111 turbines with a capacity of 222Mw, all located on low-rainfall farmland which is mainly cropped for wheat and canola. The Collgar Windfarm supplies 630-750 Gigawatt hrs of electricity annually, and that is around 4% of W.A.'s power needs.

We have a poor supply of coal in W.A. and that coal mine (at Collie, in the SW of the State) has a limited level of coal reserves.

Around 55% of W.A.'s power is generated by Natural Gas turbines, about 25% by coal-powered turbines, about 10% is wind-powered, and about 10% comes from solar-power, and other sources such as hydro and landfill gas.

The Collgar wind farm seems to be quite well-accepted in W.A., and the life of the turbines is predicted to be 30 years.

 

https://www.collgarwindfarm.com.au/about/

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by onetrack

[Jerry_Atrick]

Welcome back, @octave - hope your contributions resume to their previous frequency (or better).

 

The consumption of lubricants, as far as I can tell is more or less accurate - but it will depend on the model of the turbine, capacity, spin cycles, etc.

 

What all of these posts overlook is what Octave is getting at.. nothing is going to be perfect- and emerging technologies are at the beginning of their lifecycle and early stages of that cycle will be full of development. The progress being made with respect to the environmental footprint, greener sources of materials, etc. is called progress. It doesn't happen overnight, but it leaves us in a better position then what we were beforehand.

 

To take the analogy further, we would still be driving around in those big V8s with poor horsepower per litre and emitting all sorts of noxious fumes.

[old man emu]

On the subject of lubricants and the massive volumes of oil said to be used by these wind-powered generators, let's consider why lubricants are needed.

 

First and foremost, lubricants are used to reduce friction generated by the movement of the surfaces of two objects in close proximity to each other. At the core of this is the "smoothness" of the surfaces. Under extreme magnification we can see that the surface of an object looks like a sheet of sandpaper with material sticking up in some places and not so high in others. As another object is moved over the surface of the sandpaper, its surface, also sandpaper-like, collides with the sandpaper's surface. As a result of these collisions, there is resistance to the movement. A secondary effect of the collisions is the generation of heat. 

 

If you have any experience with sandpaper, you will know that it is produced in various grades of coarseness of its surface. The grades run from he very coarse 40 Grit to the ultrafine 5000 grit. The friction generated by the use of this range of grits lessens as you move to finer and finer grits. By using finer and finer grits you can reduce the roughness of two surfaces and reduce the friction between them. However, there will still be a degree of friction if they are in contact. By using a lubricant, these surfaces are kept apart at the molecular level, with the friction now being between one surface and the molecules of the lubricant.

 

Secondly, lubricants are used to dissipate the heat generated by the friction generated between them and the surfaces they contact. The effect of being heated is to "cook" the lubricant so that its original lubricating ability is reduced. One can also add that the lubricant becomes contaminated with material eroded form the surfaces, and that adds to the friction.

 

So what's the solution, and how does the solution reduce the need for great volumes of lubricant? Quite simply, if the surfaces are polished to a high degree of smoothness, then friction from that source would be reduced, but less lubricant would be required. Further, if one surface was made of a very low friction material, and that component was easily replaced if worn, then even less lubricant would be required.

 

Bearings and gears in a variety of "plastics" made from petrochemicals are commonplace. For want of a useful term, let's call these plastics, nylon, although nylon is a specific thing. Nylon is made from petrochemicals. The average greenhouse gas footprint of nylon in manufacturing carpets is 5.43 kg CO2 equivalent per kg, when produced in Europe. This gives it almost the same carbon footprint as wool, but with greater durability and therefore a lower overall carbon footprint.

 

So, if further research is conducted into making ultra-smooth surfaced objects from new "plastics" then the requirement for massive amounts of lubricants could be reduced, with these smaller amounts used mainly for heat dissipation. The saved petroleum could be redirected into the petrochemical industry to make new types of plastics for other uses.

 

Nylon is a robust polymer and lends itself well to recycling. Vanden Recycling recycles nylon and other polyamides (PA) and has operations in the UK, Australia, Hong Kong, the UAE, Turkey and Finland. Unfortunately recycling has been ignored in the past and as a result it is estimated that 10% of the debris in the oceans. There are 5.25 trillion pieces of plastic debris in the ocean. Of that mass, 269,000 tons float on the surface, while some four billion plastic microfibers per square kilometre litter the deep sea.

[facthunter]

You can  recycle Oil. Lube oil itself doesn't "wear" out. 

  Gearbox oil doesn't get contaminated by products of combustion like an IC engine does. The wear particles can easily be filtered out. Additives can be used up and recycled oil takes that into account.  Water will be excluded with good  design.  High duty/load gears will be of alloy steel and ground for accuracy after heat treatment which causes distortion.   They will also have the bearings pre loaded to keep better alignment under load. There are always frictional losses with gears and with chains less  so..Nev.

[old man emu]

Quite simply, those of us who are not Luddites know that where there's a willingness, there's a way.

[onetrack]

Ceramic bearings offer the greatest savings for reduced lubricant use, in fact ceramic bearings do not need lubricant.

But gearboxes need lubricant and I don't know how you'd eliminate gearboxes from wind turbines.

[facthunter]

You don't need lots of oil  (quantity) either with forced lubrication. The world has been making quality gears for 150 years at least..  Nev.

[nomadpete]

The latest Boyer lecture had Twiggy Forrest talking up his plans for solar/wind powered iron ore plant right at the mine. Worth watching, he says that so much is happening by private enterprise to reduce CO2, in spite of the lack of leadership from government.

[Old Koreelah]

Who would have thought, forty years ago, that we’d be sitting here discussing all these exciting new developments in renewables.

 

I’ve long thought the best way to power ships was to launch high altitude kites, controlled by AI, to take advantage of the best winds. Now it’s nearer:
 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220309-the-kites-flying-to-harness-the-worlds-strongest-winds

[red750]

[old man emu]

The High Court says 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I used to watch every news bulletin, keeping up to date on the issues of the day. Nowadays, after recovering from a few terrible years of The Black Dog, I can’t afford to expose myself to much dispair.

 

But this story about the destruction of nature, the loss of species, got past my guard. We could lose the biggest, most magestic penguin species. For three years running, all their chicks have died. 
 

Meanwhile, an overfed, superwealthy white man plots to gain the balance of power so he can open a dirty new coal mine.

 I hope enough of our people have the brains to think before they vote.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-08/emperor-penguin-at-risk-of-extinction-due-to-climate-change/101047600

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes.. I saw this, too.. But sadly,. Labor isn't going to put the brakes on new coal for a while.. Votes in QLD too important, I guess.

 

[nomadpete]

Old K 

I wasn' t aware of this.

If there was an ANGRY emoticon, I would have used it.

I too, have been avoiding most news, and ALL political political advertising gets instantly muted in my house. It all gets too depressing.

[pmccarthy]

This morning's Age reports 'the biggest increase in mining the world has ever seen' to support renewables targets.

[Jerry_Atrick]

What's your point?

 

[octave]

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

This morning's Age reports 'the biggest increase in mining the world has ever seen' to support renewables targets.

There is a vast difference  mining materials that can then produce cleaner and sustainable power production and then be recycled and coal which is burnt once and also produces harmful by products. Mining will probably always be a part of human existence. What we do mine has to be done sustainably, not just dig it up and burn it 

[spacesailor]

Coal produces more than mere ' ash ' it can be ' cooked ' to produce coal gas, & coke for smokeless burning. 

Has anyone noticed how the plants are growing  ?. Every thing is green & we seem to have a second flowering of ' some ' plants. I think my two tomatoes are ready to harvest. 

spacesailor

[Yenn]

Coal was cooked to produce coal gas when I was a kid in the UK. Now all the gasometers have been demolished and I doubt that anyone knows what coke is. The think it comes in a red can.

Coal gas powered many cities and coke was a good fuel, unless you pissed on the fire and then the stench was pretty awful, but only a squadie in the army would do such a thing.

I used to fill up the coke fire in the workshop when we arrived for work, pour in half a litre of petrol, with a trail of petrol round the corner. Light the fuel and it was roaring away merrily when we went into the workshop. Try that with coal or wood and the petrol burns instantly without necessarily lighting the fuel.

[old man emu]

Coke is essential for the smelting of metal ores, especially iron ore.  . Since smoke-producing constituents are driven off during the coking of coal, coke forms a desirable fuel for stoves and furnaces in which conditions are not suitable for the complete burning of bituminous coal itself. Coke may be combusted producing little or no smoke, while bituminous coal would produce much smoke. Coke was widely used as a smokeless fuel substitute for coal in domestic heating following the creation of "smokeless zones" in the United Kingdom.

 

China is the largest coke producer in the world, accounting for over 60% of the world coke production. Where does China get its coking coal? Yep. Another example of short-sightedness by Australia. Imagine if we made the effort to  coke our own coal? We would have the gas as fuel and still be able to export a valuable commodity.

 

[octave]

Exxon Lobbyist Caught on Camera Going Full Cartoon Villain

 

 

[spacesailor]

Wait a moment, .

IF ( make that a bigger IF ).

SNOWBALL EARTH

Is not normal,

Then this so called ' global warming ' is wrong

As we Are returning to Earths normal temperature! .

IF SO, it,s just the transisinal stage, we are adjusting to, that we winge about. LoL

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

Pretty certain you would whinge if humanity's careless developments made earth more like the billions of other planets out there in the galaxy.

[spacesailor]

YES

Ours is a beautiful ' spaceship ' !.

Our ' spacecraft will soon be passing through the " Andromeda " galaxy. 

Not too soon for us mortals though .

spacesailor

Edited May 19, 2022 by spacesailor
More added

[red750]