Keep your Theist/Atheist arguments here

[Jerry_Atrick]

Indeed.. and a song, too..

 

 

[onetrack]

WTF is that bloke with the guitar on the right doing with his right hand? It looks like he's trying to smash the guitar, as he's playing it!

I wonder where he got that technique from? Must've been self-taught, surely?

[facthunter]

Castlemaine has a gaol. Nev

[pmccarthy]

There is indeed a Castlemaine in Ireland but the song was written about the Australian Castlemaine. We even have a photo of Jack Doolan.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I always thought he was born in Australia but the song said differently....  I still like to think it was the Castlemaine in Australia, I didn't even know about an Irish Castlemaine.

[old man emu]

Australian place names generally have two sources, places in Great Britain and Aboriginal locality descriptors. You can add in a few names that are memorials to famous people. 

[pmccarthy]

Aboriginal place names were used as squatters moved outward because they were the only way to identify places. Travellers could ask the local aborgines which way to a certain place. There was no one else to ask.

 

[Old Koreelah]

I suspect some of those black fellas had a sense of humour; they knew the real meaning of some of our place names, even if the white fellas were blissfully ignorant. Goonoo Goonoo station has hosted royalty and the famous, but is said to actually be the name for human extreta.

[nomadpete]

I don't doubt that OK.

My grandmother had a aboriginal 'nanny' and she told me the same thing. Most of the indigenous that I've met (at least the non fringe dwellers) have had a great sense of humour, and are not as 'sensitive' as some of the more vocal townies. They even take the pizz out of themselves if it is funny enough.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I really disliked how Howards "intervention " was put into practice. While the idea of not allowing dole money to be spent on grog is a good one, the racist way it was implemented was just nasty. We knew a senior nurse ( aboriginal ) who never drank any grog, but her welfare money after she retired was treated badly. Meanwhile, white ferals who needed the intervention suffered not at all. There were actually houses where a kid could get bashed for doing too well at school...  " trying to show me up are you?  ...  powww" actually happened a lot.

[nomadpete]

I am confused about some of the rules.

 

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.
A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.
The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9.
The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.
Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

They do say that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
 

[nomadpete]

Thankfully, most modern christians don't take everything in the "Good Book" too seriously.

[facthunter]

Only the "ones" that suit their desired weird behaviour. Leviticus also states consume your CHILDREN and thereby confound those that besiege you. (Keep your protein up). That might cause the kids a few sleepless nights.  Nev

[willedoo]

This thread is above my pay grade, but here's my two bobs worth. I think a lot of debates get a bit blurred between religion ie: old books telling us what to do or not do, and spirituality. It's very easy for anyone to argue the case that religion is a crock. On the other hand, arguing that a spiritual aspect to life doesn't exist is a much harder case to put.

 

Perhaps spirituality is just some natural thing like endorphins affecting our brain. If so, it hasn't yet been proven beyond doubt by modern science. I think if arguing against religion, one could have a reasonable chance of winning the debate, but arguing against spirituality can go round and round like arguing politics.

[Yenn]

Define spirituality.

My definition is the belief in something that is unbelievable.

I have never found anyone who can argue that there is something to believe in, at least something that we can influence or be influenced by.

My belief is in mother nature.

[facthunter]

A profound respect for the earth's creatures and flora would be a good starting point for a suitable religion. Saving your miserable life doesn't seem like a worthy aim for anyone but yourself. Sharing heaven with them would be a kind of hell. Self righteousness is repugnant.  Nev

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, Yenn said:

Define spirituality.

My definition is the belief in something that is unbelievable. My belief is in mother nature.

The concept of Mother Nature, a female giver of life, or generally, an Earth Mother is common throughout the world. The concept seems a reasonable answer to "What made us?" asked as mankind developed self-awareness. Simple observation would show that new life comes from females, not males, and females are the protectors of Life.  This concept of an Earth Mother appears on every inhabited continent, except Australia. 

 

Its absence in the spirituality of Aboriginal culture would suggest that the concept didn't arise until well after the Aborigines became isolated on the continent. Aboriginal creation stories put the creation of the world down to a number of special animals, such as the Rainbow Serpent, a greedy frog and a burnt crocodile. This video is a bit off topic as it deals with genetic studies of Aboriginals, but it does provide some dating information for the arrival of Aborigines and their existence on the continent.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sprituality is, to me the essence of being and belief that helps us push through despite inordinate hardships. It may be a belief in a god or some other religion, or it may be simply a bdesire to survive - like virtually every other living creature on earth.

 

However, if we are to respect religious beliefs and they are the genesis (pun intended) of spirituality, then in addition to respecting the more traditional (read, old/ancient) religions, then surely, we have to respect modern day cults, because, after all, are they not just new religions (edit - that provide spirituality)? Who is to say one is right and the other is wrong, if it is just an unproven belief? And yes, there are some dissastrous cults of depravity and sexual/material exploitation... But have not the traditional religions exploited the same over their lifetime?

 

To me, what we call religions today were yesterday's cults.

 

(for the record, any cult that exploits their flock in any way should be held to account to the full extent of the law)

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

11 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

religious beliefs and they are the genesis (pun intended) of spirituality

I think that you have the cart before the horse there. An important trait of Mankind is the ability to observe the happenings in its surrounds then spend time trying to answer Who, What, Why and How those things happen. This ability is enhanced by the ability to communicate with others to exchange opinions and reach a satisfactory answer. If a satisfactory answer can't be reached, then one is invented to give that satisfaction. That is the root of spirituality and a Spirit World.

 

Once a Spirit World has been created, Mankind populated it with what it knew best - people who were either good or bad; people who had the same personality traits as Mankind. Since Mankind had rules to run its societies, then the spirit world must run on similar rules. The simplest rules were those that ran the family group. Those rules allowed for reward or punishment, so in dealing with the spirit world, Mankind invested it with the ability to reward or punish. As soon as that investment was made, religion was created.

 

As long as Mankind lacked the answers to explain its surroundings, religions held strong, but as Mankind's knowledge grew, the need to answer to a spirit world declined. That's why I think that there has been a decline in the practising of religious activities over the last 175 years. Not that all has been abandoned. Our Western society's rules are still based on the Ten Commandments. It's just that adherence to the first three, that relate to spirituality, is waning.

[facthunter]

Tasmania is becoming very spiritual.. There's gin factories opening up everywhere. Sco Mo gave millions to one the other day even though it's a publicly listed company.  Nev

[Yenn]

Why should we respect religious beliefs?

I can see no reason to respect stupidity, except that it has always been that way. Is it not time to change and get rid of the monkey on our backs? Parts of religion are good, such as the looking after of others and comradeship, but the God thing spoils it all.

[facthunter]

Any requirement to adhere to beliefs and having reprisals for  not doing it are misplaced if just applied above and beyond the accepted law of the Land under fear of punishment.. Forcing anyone to BELIEVE is absurd. You can't change what people actually believe without extensive brainwashing or targeted propaganda. Threatening will get a "Yes I believe" if it saves your head being cut off.. IF you give concessions to any religion where do you stop ? Do you give it to all?. Better to give it to NONE and avoid the problem. Also believers are not necessarily pure in heart and full of "goodness". Their motivation is to get to heaven and in many cases do extra well on earth before then. Atheists can often be more humanist than god botherers.. Nev

[old man emu]

34 minutes ago, Yenn said:

Why should we respect religious beliefs?

For the very same reason we should respect religious dis-belief ... out of respect for the other person's right to live as they please. But that always comes with the caveat that there is a return of respect.

[spacesailor]

You can ' join ' the Christian religion, then go back to your old one, if not satisfied .

Other,s don,t allow that, on the pain of DEATH.

BUT

Why so many different order,s of Christianity.

Only one Christian prophet, yet so many cults

spacesailor

[old man emu]

13 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Why so many different order,s of Christianity.

Only one Christian prophet, yet so many cults

Simply an example of the application of "political" power. By "political power" I mean the use of tactics to secure control of a group.