Climate change causees refugee crisis.

[Yenn]

Todays news states that climate change is one of the causes of the great number f refugees and it is going to get worse.

From what I have seen the major cause of refugees is petty warlords, or religious nutters causing widespread fear in the countries where refugees come from.

Sri Lanka had a lot of people turning up as refugees, Wasn't that caused by one part of the population rebelling against the other? How about Mianmar? Vietnam was probably the first flush of refugees to Australia. I didn't see any climate change causing that. Ho about Afghanistan. Oh sorry we could hardly call George W Bush a petty warlord, although John Howard fits the bill.

Africa seems to be in a real crisis of refugees and most of them seem to be fleeing from religious persecution.

Have I got it all wrong? Is climate change the real cause of warlordism and US stupidity?

[nomadpete]

I sense a subtle undercurrent of cynicism.

[facthunter]

The article only said it is one of the causes. If and when the 3rd pole so called in Nepal melts there will be a bout 3 billion people finding lack of water a problem. They won't be able to feed themselves. Like some parts of sub sahara is in africa . Nev

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, Yenn said:

Todays news states that climate change is one of the causes of the great number f refugees and it is going to get worse….

Most sensible commentators admit that many factors are at work. Some have associated climate change with the civil war in Syria. Droughts and water shortages were one factor in huge numbers of young men moving from villages to the cities, where they quickly formed a disaffected generation calling for political change.

1 hour ago, Yenn said:Vietnam was probably the first flush of refugees to Australia.

 

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, Yenn said:

Todays news states that climate change is one of the causes of the great number f refugees and it is going to get worse.

From what I have seen the major cause of refugees is petty warlords, or religious nutters causing widespread fear in the countries where refugees come from.

Sensible commentators admit that many factors are at work, so it’s hard to isolate the main trigger.

Syria’s civil war may not have happened without a huge number of disaffected young men moving to the cities, displaced by droughts and declining rural employment.

1 hour ago, Yenn said:

Vietnam was probably the first flush of refugees to Australia…

Just after WWII Australia took in a couple of million people from Europe. Many were refugees.

It could be argued that the first convict ships were full of economic refugees.

 

While we argue the point, the pressures mount and the trickle is turning into a flood.
Australia is seen as rich, empty and responsible for more than our fair share of carbon pollution, so the world is very likely to expect us to take them in…

[pmccarthy]

Today’s Age had an article about rising sea levels in Kiribati. The photo was a stock flood picture from 2015. The focus of the story was on climate change. A bit of background research showed the crisis was in 2015 and the problem is subsiding ground, not rising sea. But they never let facts get in the way of an alarmist story

 

[Fliteright]

We need another ice age to wipe out the stupidity of most of the human species! God 'elp us from the climate change nutters!

[willedoo]

4 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Syria’s civil war may not have happened without a huge number of disaffected young men moving to the cities, displaced by droughts and declining rural employment.

Yes, it would have. Syria is not a good example re climate factors and the war there had nothing to do with climate change. From the get go it was all about attempted forced regime change. Syria's problem was that like all the other designated black hats, they don't kowtow to the usual suspects or obey their foreign policy dictates. Firstly, they are aligned with Russia which makes them an automatic enemy by default of the U.S. Secondly, Assad's government wouldn't allow the pipeline from Qatar to go through their land. The whole thing was supposed to be passed off as a natural extension of the Arab Spring, and it was working until the Russians stepped in and turned the tide. 80% of the rebel fighters were imported paid foreigners. Probably the only genuine ones were the Kurds. Geopolitics from start to finish.

 

The reality of Syria is poles apart from the narrative that we are force fed. Take Aleppo for example. Almost every night on the news we were shown a totally bombed out, devastated city. Or so they said. That was the 20% of Aleppo that was in the hands of the rebel forces. Our news never showed the other 80% of the city under government control which was untouched and life went on as normal. When our news was misrepresenting that 20% as the whole city, in the other 80%, people were still partying in night clubs. To be fair to some of the press, a lot of them just didn't know the truth. Very few Western journalists were in country, and most news agencies just ran with someone else's stuff. Another problem is that these days, commentary gets easily mistaken for news and soon morphs into what is dished up to us as fact.

 

For centuries, Syria has been an example of tolerance toward different religions. Christians, Muslims, Assyrians, Jews, and many other minorities have all got on together. Assad's government has female ministers and Christians. Compare Syria's track record to the fundamentalist Sunni players that help fund the rebel forces. It seems to come back to that old thing of 'our enemy's enemy is our friend' when determining foreign policy.

[facthunter]

Yes we used to call them reffos wogs and balts. (and 10 pound poms) despite the  disingenuous terminology we were on good terms with most of them (at least where I worked.) The outfit was pretty good that way. This was in the 50's. A lot worked on the Snowy Hydro project. Nev

[Dax]

I don't think climate change is the refugee crisis, people have been fleeing religious wars for thousands of years and the majority of refugees today are all from religious conflicts. Nothing has changed over the centuries, just got worse, but we will soon see climate change refugees and they will be a greater number. You can flee a religious conflict to a safer place, but with climate change, safe places will become very scarce and Aus may face a massive water crisis. Fracking, is growing rapidly and not only uses loads of water but contaminates what it doesn't take out of the ground and Queensland has not long ago approved over 7000 more fracking wells.

 

One thing most may have no realised with climate change and sea rise is, if the seas rise over about 3-4m, many parts the center of Aus may well flood giving us an inland sea and really change the dynamics of our weather.

 

As for refugees, if climate change drives people from their areas, they won't be able to just move to a safer place, because lots of places will be having the same problems. The nth hemisphere will suffer the most as they rely upon glaciers and mountain snow for their water supplies, we are already seeing many rivers drying and changing. When the scales tip to unsustainable for life, panic will set in and getting to Aus will become more difficult, but more will try form Asian and middle east regions.

 

We should be closing out borders to refugees now, the  more religious nut cases we let in, the more we will see our societies suffering. We can see with the virus, it's mostly the idiotic self entitled young and religious who are flouting lock downs and spreading it around. We are our own worst enemy, so whatever happens will be on us and in particular, the ideologues of the world who are completely insane.

[nomadpete]

At least in my lifetime there is little chance of masses of climate refugee hoards spoiling our country.

However, I do believe that there is some chance of unrest and uncontrolled migration due to famine and water crisis that will ocur in other places. In the shorter term these are more likely to catch everyone "unawares". As mentioned by others, there is a tendency for humans towards denial of any hazard until it is immediate. In that way, we are indeed our own worst enemy.  There are signs of a growing problem for everybody downhill from Mt Everest, when it comes to water. When that eventualities, there will be consequences worldwide. We should be planning our own water and food  security now.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by nomadpete

[Yenn]

Why should a water crisis occur in other places. Australias water supply is not up to supplying any more than it is doing now.

Our local dam has had no inflow this year. A few years ago they wanted to bring water from the Fitzroy  river which feeds Rockhampton. Then they decided to rise the dam and to get the money they got help from the Biloela area, but to get that they had to pump water over into the Dawson catchment to top up their irrigation aquifer. The Dawson runs into the Fitzroy, upstream of Rockhampton. That is what they call perpetual water motiion.

Seriously we are facing a shortage of water in most of Australia. Only the tropical North has enough. They built the Ord River dam to catch water and use it for irrigation in North of West Australia. Good move and the ducks loved it when the rice was grown. Hardly anyone lives up there and there is no great irrigation scheme, although it is increasing with the growth of crops such as mangoes. They tried sugar, but it brought disease in from Indonesia and had to stop before it decimated the Eastern Seaboard sugar crop.

[NT5224]

3 hours ago, Yenn said:

Why should a water crisis occur in other places. Australias water supply is not up to supplying any more than it is doing now.

Our local dam has had no inflow this year. A few years ago they wanted to bring water from the Fitzroy  river which feeds Rockhampton. Then they decided to rise the dam and to get the money they got help from the Biloela area, but to get that they had to pump water over into the Dawson catchment to top up their irrigation aquifer. The Dawson runs into the Fitzroy, upstream of Rockhampton. That is what they call perpetual water motiion.

Seriously we are facing a shortage of water in most of Australia. Only the tropical North has enough. They built the Ord River dam to catch water and use it for irrigation in North of West Australia. Good move and the ducks loved it when the rice was grown. Hardly anyone lives up there and there is no great irrigation scheme, although it is increasing with the growth of crops such as mangoes. They tried sugar, but it brought disease in from Indonesia and had to stop before it decimated the Eastern Seaboard sugar crop.

Hardly anybody lives up there?  🤔

[nomadpete]

I'm not saying we don't have a water crisis here in Australia. We do. Both here and in other countries, there has been serious mismanagement and "overallocation" (which really is a PC way to avoid saying "the demands caused by overpopulation")

However, my concern is that our water crisis can only affect a "mere" 25 million occupants.

By contrast, the runoff from the Himayayan mountains, for instance, supplies hundreds of millions of people in numerous countries. If that water source continues to decline, there is the potential for hundreds of millions of hungry, thirsty people rapidly trying to relocate to wherever they think they can survive.

[nomadpete]

NT, there is clearly nowhere near enough people living "up there".

 

Well, not enough to drink all that nice fresh, free tropical rainwater they get. Every wet season I see pictures of vast amounts of wasted water lying around in swamps at Kakadu on the news.

[facthunter]

It only rains for about 1/4 of the year and a "WET" is not always assured. Occasionally there will be a fair amount in the centre or will come down Coopers Creek  and the channel country but that's not reliable either. Remove Darwin and Alice Springs from the equation and the rest is pretty empty of  humans or animals.. The artesian water has been depleted with misuse and time   The stars at night are something for wonderment as is the thunderstorms and lightning near the northern coast.. Nev

[Fliteright]

Australia has got more water than you can poke a stick at, surfs up:-)

[Old Koreelah]

17 hours ago, nomadpete said:

NT, there is clearly nowhere near enough people living "up there".

 

Well, not enough to drink all that nice fresh, free tropical rainwater they get. Every wet season I see pictures of vast amounts of wasted water lying around in swamps at Kakadu on the news.

Populating Australia’s north has always been seen as strategically impertitive, but getting people to live there is still difficult; few white fellas last long in the climate, so it has always been multicultural.

The many schemes to develop major population centres seem to wither on the vine.

Darwin has had squilions thrown at it, with infrastructure sufficient for many times its small current population, yet people didn’t tend to stay.  

 

 

 

[onetrack]

Not being able to swim anywhere, in any inviting patch of water, because of crocs, is what puts most people off living in the North. Its time their numbers were cut right back.

They built a fenced swimming hole at Jabiru township and the crocs ended up getting into it, making it unusable. Nothing worse than being stinking hot in humid weather, and not being able to go for a swim to cool off.

 

During WW2, the soldiers and workmen in the civilian construction groups in the North went swimming in all the creeks. This was because they shot any croc they sighted, and the crocs knew to keep right away from humans.

Even Darwin beaches are risky today. They trap about 250-300 crocs a year, just in Darwin harbour alone. I've seen a photo of a croc surfing at Mindil beach, where thousands go dipping regularly.

[spacesailor]

SEE 

Not enough people! !,

EATING crock meat.

Tastes like chicken, They say, I thought it was more like bland fish.  ( crok & chips )

Not fron NT , I had my taste at Cairns Queensland, then further north in CapeYork somewhere. 

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Tastes pretty ordinary as far as I'm concerned and every local I've asked says the same.  Nev

[Yenn]

Comment that there are not many people up here. That is correct and that is why I live here. I would hate to live in a city or anywhere near one.

It is the crowding of people that causes all the problems with epidemics and pandemics.

I remember travelling on the London underground as a kid and it was so crowded that you could not move, except when the mob moved.

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Not being able to swim anywhere, in any inviting patch of water, because of crocs, is what puts most people off living in the North. Its time their numbers were cut right back…

Despite being a greenie, I agree, OT. Australia has a woeful record on nature conservation, but governments seem unable to adapt to changing situations. In 1970 I worked with a croc shooter from Cairns, who knew of a few isolated rivers where he could find crocs. Within a few years of the hunting ban, their numbers had recovered.
 

Many of our critters are in plague proportions due to the white fella changing their environment, yet they enjoy the same protection as the most threatened species. I’d happily shoot the white cockatoos which do massive damage around our place, but they are protected. We should be allowed to export the buggers!

[Fliteright]

Perhaps we ought to shoot the human species, they too have become plague proportions & pests😁We can start with the worst pests, politicians:-)😁

Edited September 16, 2021 by Fliteright

[Jerry_Atrick]

15 hours ago, Yenn said:

I remember travelling on the London underground as a kid and it was so crowded that you could not move, except when the mob moved.

Pre-pandemic, not much had changed. I could get on a tube at 5:45am - that's right - 5:45am and it was packed to the hilt. During the day it marginally thinned out, but the evening peak hour - which ran from about 3:3pm - 8:30pm, it is almost always rammed. I have not been on the tube snce.. I came into Waterloo station and too the bus, which was pre-pandemic also rammed, but now, about 1/2 seats taken.. Some people at work were saying the tube is about 3/4 full during peak hour at the moment.