Examples of corruption in Australia

[octave]

The most convincing statistic is that 80% of people who contract Pleural Mesothelioma have a history of working with asbestos.  Most people who work with asbestos  do not contract Mesothelioma.   This is true of many hazards. If you smoke you wont necessarily get lung cancer but it is still something to avoid.

 

My grandfather died of Mesothelioma in 1975. He worked in an industrial  laundry that washed overalls from a company that mined asbestos.   Apparently he used to shake the dust out of overalls before loading then into the washing machines.  

 

In the 80s I was a musician in the Air Force Band and we used to play for many Vice Regal events  at Gov House (NSW)   We use to have drinks with the Gov after the event.  One of the Govs was Sir David Martin and not long after becoming Gov he started getting unwell with mesothelioma.   This was the result of a lifetimes service in the navy. Naval ships were loaded with asbestos (pipe lagging etc.)    

 

Sheet asbestos is OK as long as it is structurally sound but cutting or drilling does pose risks.    My present house  contains sheet asbestos.    The shower cubicle was lined with a product that had an asbestos base (Luminex). Rather than removing it we chose to seal it and cover it with modern fibro and tiles. I think removing it would have been more hazardous.

 

The bad thing is that the hazards of asbestos have been known fore a long time.    

 

"In 1899, H. Montague Murray noted the negative health effects of asbestos. The first documented death related to asbestos was in 1906. In the early 1900s, researchers began to notice a large number of early deaths and lung problems in asbestos-mining towns."

 

My Grandfather perhaps could have enjoyed  his retirement if the early warnings had been acted upon.  

 

Does anyone remember when Tony Abbott accused  Bernie Banton (Asbestos campaigner who died of Mesothelioma)  of perpetrating a political stunt?      Abbott accuses asbestos fighter of political stunt     I wander if Abbott the monarchist thought the NSW Gov was just pulling a political stunt?

 

 

[spacesailor]

What about COAL , crushed & blown into furnace,s for all sorts of smelting .

The firm I worked have had a ' class action ' against them, as no one had retired frome the factory floor for three generations.  No P C clothing of any type , not even a rudimentary face mask .

Never found out what the outcome was . It just vanished from the media. 

spacesailor

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

You mean our clean and green coal.. maybe? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-21/andrew-wilkie-alleges-fraud-and-bribery-by-coal-exporters/101677778

 

 

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

You mean our clean and green coal.. maybe? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-21/andrew-wilkie-alleges-fraud-and-bribery-by-coal-exporters/101677778

 

 

Poor little coal miners.  Don't you know the nasty government is going to force them to fire 30,000 people if they bring in those horrible IR laws?  And now that troublemaker Wilkie is dragging up some old secrets that nobody needs to hear about.  It's so hard running a multinational fossil fuel company these days.

[Old Koreelah]

Wilke has sure copped it for showing the moral fibre to expose dirty secrets.

Not popular with so many whose meal ticket is in jeapardy. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There is a great difference between asbestos and asbestos cement. This difference is conveniently ignored. I never said that raw asbestos was not a nasty material. But it combines so well with cement that we have a completely different material. 

In a population, we could find examples of people who think that they got mesothelioma from AC, and it is impossible to disprove that.

 

My point is that AC is NOT asbestos, any more than water is dangerous because both hydrogen and oxygen are dangerous gases.( Di-hydrogen oxide has been warned against )

[Old Koreelah]

Back to gambling; The Guardian has been focussing on it’s corrosive effects in 

Australia:

 

”We’ve revealed the multi-billion dollar investments Australia’s largest superannuation companies have made in the gambling industry just in the past year, pouring workers’ retirement savings into pokies manufacturers, casino operators and lottery companies – even through investment options that claim to be “socially aware”. 

Gambling is political, but it’s also fundamentally an inequality issue. The worst losses happen in communities where people can least afford it, and people are losing extraordinary amounts of money on machines and apps that are designed to addict them. “I didn’t live well, but my pokies habit lived well,” said one man who told me his devastating story of a life in thrall to the pokies. “If you asked me to tally what I lost? I would have had my own house by now.”

The gambling lobby is extremely powerful – so much so that even in the wake of multiple inquiries, with the New South Wales election looming, one NSW Labor MP told the Guardian that the view within the party was that the fight over gambling reform “was not a fight worth having.”

[facthunter]

When the LNP were subsidising the BIG BOYS they declared Crown to be an ESSENTIAL Industry. HOW about that?  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

On gambling, I hope that the latest stuff on how inequality hurts the gdp should help. There is nothing to promote inequality more than pokies.

I read that in the USA, salaries are 20% lower because earners have been losing the inequality battle for years now.

[red750]

Maybe I'm weird, maybe I'm a freak. I don't gamble, apart from one mini lotto ticket if the jackpot is over $20 million. (Gotta be in it to win it, and it only takes one game.) People just have no willpower (or should that be won't power).

 

I don't drink, don't smoke, don't use recreational drugs, and as I said , don't gamble. No betting, no cards, no pokies, no roulette, etc., etc.

 

Maybe that's why I have no friends (). Who needs 'em?

[octave]

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

There is a great difference between asbestos and asbestos cement.

 

Asbestos cement sheeting is fine unless it broken.   We had a pre purchase inspection on our present house.  We were alerted to the possibility of sheet asbestos and reassured that it was fine unless it was cracked or broken. In fact there is a cracked piece and we were advised to seal the crack and edges with appropriate paint.  The other hazard is of course drilling sanding or cutting asbestos sheet. 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

One day my son said that it would take hardly any extra luck to find the winning ticket blowing down the street. This thought  has helped me from buying even the odd gambling ticket.

I reckon my liking for red wine is quite enough of a problem anyway. As a mate of mine said "  I don't think I can handle any more addictions"

AND I just hate paying tax more than necessary to fund other's gambling.

[Bruce Tuncks]

As for asbestos-cement  sheeting, it does seem reasonable to think that mechanical damage would liberate raw asbestos fibers. My understanding is that this idea has been tested and found wanting. The guys who spent day after day hole-sawing AC pipes for irrigation schemes didn't get sick.

Of course I can't guarantee that it will never happen, but I can guarantee that a north-west dust-storm in Australia will have some asbestos fibers in it.

That air has blown from places where outcroppings of natural asbestos occur. In fact, all asbestos ever used was natural.  The bad stuff was the raw fibers, used to insulate boilers and steam-pipes in the olden days, not to mention making protective clothing. I don't know for sure, but it is possible that batts of the deadly stuff were used as home insulation.

[red750]

The next thing to be banned is ceasarstone - causes silicosis.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep red, the old miners at Bendigo aged before their time because of silicosis. It's real nasty stuff that they breathed in for many years. Wet drilling saved a lot of lives, but it was not enough by itself.

[facthunter]

My Grandfather, a coal miner, died of silicosis at quite a young age when I was 3or4. My parents looked after him in our house. Nev

[octave]

It is quite true that asbestos fibres are in the air and during autopsies fibres are found in most peoples lungs.  The point is though that the damage is cumulative.   It is not that one fibre will kill you but the combination of naturally occurring combined with fibres from the use of asbestos containing products statistically increases you chances of harm.  Some people can have a high exposure and not suffer any consequences and some can have a low exposure and  suffer the worst consequences.    

 

As I mentioned when I bought my current residence  and had it inspected and we were advised to seal the broken edges to prevent fibres being liberated. This was cheap and easy and it would be dumb not to make the effort.   

 

The fact that asbestos fibres are in the environment in low levels does not mean we should limit extra exposure from other sources.  I s a little bit like radiation, there is back ground radiation that we are all exposed to but this does not mean we should ignore extra avoidable sources.  

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon you win octave. I can't argue that the broken asbestos would not release a tiny bit and as you say, it is the total which matters.

I still reckon that Asbestos-Cement is unfairly lumped into the "asbestos is a deadly poison" category.

Maybe I am just feeling guilty about stopping the nephew from burning down this old place on the farm.

[facthunter]

I wouldn't regard it responsible to burn an asbestos house.  Legal disposal costs money. Silicon (sand) glass fibres and ground false marble dust and carbon fibre are not safe either. Plutonium needs only about 1 microgram  to finish you off. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Buggah! Was tidying up a bit of neglected land behiond a dilapidated shed and found 6 sheets of AC laying on the ground. Am going to have to get it removed.

 

Back to corruption, looks like a back bencher may well be in on the game as well: https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/how-do-you-enter-the-corridors-of-power-maybe-go-via-the-backbench-20221124-p5c0zr.html

 

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Buggah! Was tidying up a bit of neglected land behiond a dilapidated shed and found 6 sheets of AC laying on the ground. Am going to have to get it removed.

 

Back to corruption, looks like a back bencher may well be in on the game as well: https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/how-do-you-enter-the-corridors-of-power-maybe-go-via-the-backbench-20221124-p5c0zr.html

 

 

 

 

Jerry, apart from the overall story, a tiny part of that article raised a red flag for me.

 

"In February 2018, the Department of Home Affairs signed a contract with Unisys to buy biometric identification services. The value of the contract changed over time but it was worth tens of millions of dollars."

 

Apart from the obvious background potential conflict of interest, why does our Australian government require millions of dollars worth of biometric identification software?

[facthunter]

Dutton wants to know what WE are doing but keeps secret what THEY are doing. Meta data retention might be part of the present data security breaches problem.  Nev

[nomadpete]

"THEY" will never admit that, Nev.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Looks like Morrison is going to be censured. Appointing himself isn't corrupt - no.. but  opaque, underhanded and undermining.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

Legalised, formalised, procedural corruption. Done within the official parliamentary guidelines and guarded by translucent anti corruption legislation.