BREXIT.

[old man emu]

Two weeks post-Brexit. Has Britain sunk beneath the ocean like a mythical Atlantis?

 

 

[octave]

Two weeks post-Brexit. Has Britain sunk beneath the ocean like a mythical Atlantis?

 

 

 

The transition period ends on December 31 2020 so not much has changed for better or worse yet.   The new trade deal has not been negotiated yet. Other things yet to be decided are:

 

• Law enforcement, data sharing and security
   
  
• Aviation standards and safety
   
  
• Access to fishing waters
   
  
• Supplies of electricity and gas
   
  
• Licensing and regulation of medicines
   
  

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The only thing that reminds me we have officially left are the radio ads the government put on.. Currently, business as usual.. Of the above, access to fishing waters is a massive worry for the Europeans.. My guess is we will stay in EASA land for aviation if the Europeans get sufficient access to fishing..

 

 

[Marty_d]

Ireland is going to be interesting now.

 

During the lead-up to the election, Boris was promising that there's no way Northern Ireland would be left out of the UK when it comes to Brexit. (This is when he was courting the DUP vote).

Then he won with such a majority that he didn't need the DUP. Surprise surprise, the border with the EU is now the Irish Sea.

 

This means that many people in Northern Ireland may feel more closely aligned with the Republic of Ireland and the EU than with the UK. Given that NI was like Scotland (majority wanted to remain), it'll be interesting to see if this leads to a stronger push for Irish reunification.

 

Wouldn't it be a laugh if Boris achieved Brexit only to lose Northern Ireland AND Scotland in the process...

[Yenn]

From the strife northern Ireland caused England in the old days I can really expect not only a laugh, but a big sigh of relief.

[Jerry_Atrick]

The Good Friday Agreement is really about preparing for the reunification of Northern Ireland and Eire; Also, I don't know too many people who care too much about whether NI stays or gos.. To be fair, I am not sure too many people worry that much abotu Scotland, either.. But that may be apathy..

 

I do feel for the Northern Irish - of the DUP - they seem to have been stitched up.

 

Don't thik Westminster will allow another referendum at the moment..

 

Other news on Brexit - the squabbling has started in the EU about what to do to plug the hole in the EU finances Britain's departure is going to make.. Wealtheiercountries want the not so wealthy countries to tightent their belts and accept less; the less wealthy countries want the wealthy countries to open the purse strings.. So much for a central administration...

[spacesailor]

GOOD

The LOOT EU took from the UK was far to much, now they can see how much they'll lose.

spacesailor

[Yenn]

It has all gone very quiet. I wonder why.

[Jerry_Atrick]

There are murmurs from the EU that the UK are using Coronavirus as an attempt to derail negoitations and aim for a hard brecit.. Michele Barnier has amply proved the anglophobe he is and towards then end of the withdrawal agreement negotiations, required heads of state to muscle in. I think, ironiically, CV has provided a pleasant distraction from Brexit shenanngans.

 

[edited to fix a hurried post]

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Michele Barnier has amply provide the anglophobe he is and atowards then end required heads of state to muscle in..

 

What??? Time to get off the sauce, Jerry.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Nah... Was hurrying the reply as I stated it when a request from SWMBO rattled in - "Have YOU taken out the rubbish?" Darn it.. could hear the trucks coming...

[spacesailor]

Not a word for a month, almost.

Now the English relo,s want to come here, just to get an idea for a better living,

First one in March, .

spacesailor

[Yenn]

My English rellies have not shown any desire to come here, but I bet they would be a lot better offf health wise, just about anywhere except in England. It is way up there with the worst hit covid effects, worse than USA or Brazil. The way they are going they could be worlds worst.

I reckon they have all forgotten Brexit.

[old man emu]

On 16/02/2020 at 5:37 PM, octave said:

The transition period ends on December 31 2020 so not much has changed for better or worse yet.   The new trade deal has not been negotiated yet. Other things yet to be decided are:

• Law enforcement, data sharing and security 
• Aviation standards and safety 
• Access to fishing waters 
• Supplies of electricity and gas 
• Licensing and regulation of medicines

It's 80 days until the end of the transition period. With all the concentration on COVID this year, what has been reported about Brexit? Has it fallen of the hot topic list like international under-age sex scandals?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ahh Brexit - I remember that! 😉

 

Actually, over the last 6 weeks or so, it has been getting news. There has been the usual, "If Britain want a deal, they better let us know what they want.." retorted by "We have let them know what we want - a Canadian style free trade agreement but we won't accept the European Court of Justice as the arbiter of disputes. There is also the little issue of European countries' access to UK fishing waters since the Europeans have fished out most of their stocks a long itme ago and have very strict quotas.

 

On Friday, it was reported that if no deal is passed, they will seek mini-deals for specific segments/products/services

 

The UK is rightly saying the ECJ should not be the arbiter - there are no longer UK judges on it so it is not really going to be partial... At least intuitively, this makes sense.

 

The European car manufacturers are egging the EU to get a deal; the Japanese and US car manufacturers here are threatening to move their factories to the continent if there is no deal (and the costs are prohibitive to export to the EU).

 

There was something in the papers about the European agri-industry bodies lobbying the EU for a deal as they see a big loss of their sales.. There is a real concern in the UK that in a rush to get a free trade agreement with the USA, they will agree to reduce food wuality standards and animal welfare, something Mike Pence has said is a red-line for such an agreement (you know, chlorinated chickens and all the other carp the USA allows its businesses to feed its people). The government has introduced some bill to allow deviation of food standards from the EU (the EU are saying any free trade agreement will be based on the UK abiding be EU standards), and the House of Lords introduced an amendment to require any deviation to be approved by an independent food standards committee - of about 4 I think.. The Government are saying it is unconstitutional (despite there being no constitution in the UK) and will pull the Parliament Acts (basically to allow law to be passed with only House of Commons approval) as the amendments requested apparently amount to a financial supply bill because they introduce extra expense to the government (salary of 4 people - probably could use existing redundant public servants) - and these are not allowed to be initiated from the House of Lords... As they say in the USA, go figure!

 

Thankfully, we have the room to grow produce and raise chickens to meet our needs (we don't eat too much red meat). But, I have to say, if the UK does go down the path of convergence with the USA with respect to food standards, I will either move to an EU country or back to Aus...

 

[pmccarthy]

I have the wartime book on how to raise chickens on kitchen scraps if you need it.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Thanks.. But we're raising the whole family on them 😉

 

[old man emu]

On 12/10/2020 at 3:33 AM, Jerry_Atrick said:

There is a real concern in the UK that in a rush to get a free trade agreement with the USA

I just realised that when I said, some time ago, that Brexit would open up markets for Australian agricultural produce like it was back in the pre-Common Market days, I forgot about the other trade war going on across the Pacific. Trump started a trade war with China, which resulted in US farmers losing sales to China, or losing money because of Chinese imposed tariffs as a tit for tat response to the US tariffs on Chinese goods. In an act of appeasement, Trump has dished out $28 million in taxpayer funded farm subsidies to keep US farmers afloat (and to assure himself of their votes next week). 

 

Whose wheat and meat would Britain buy?  Ours, based on ancient family ties but needing to be transported from half a world away, or US produce bought at a conversion rate of 1.3 USD to the GBP and only shipped 3000 miles across the Atlantic?

 

That's if Australia can produce any agricultural products. I bough a packet of frozen peas yesterday - grown in New Zealand.  Australian agriculture must be pretty sick when it can't have a pea.

[onetrack]

OME - There's more to the equation than just grain prices. Australian meat and grains are of the highest quality (although Kiwi lamb is pretty good) - and buyers buy grain according to its qualities associated with flavour, and good milling ability, and good cooking/baking attributes.

 

Essentially, most American wheat is crap, and it doesn't command a price premium. A lot of American wheat is only suitable for feed grain. But ASW (Australian Standard White) wheat is a premium product with excellent milling and blending qualities, and is highly sought after, for Middle Eastern and Indian flat breads, European styles of bread and rolls, and for Chinese steamed bread. It is also of high purity (no excess amount of dead bug carcasses, or high levels of screenings) and low toxicity (by way of residual chemicals).

 

https://agrocommodityasia.com/shop/wholegrainsandseeds/wheat/wheat-australian-standard-white-varieties-asw/

 

Australian Durum Wheat is highly sought after for its hardness and high protein levels, which make for the finest pasta. The Italians will kill for ADW, and ADW grown in Australia is nearly all exported - mostly to Italy.

 

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/broadacre-crops/winter-crops/wheat,-barley-and-other-winter-cereals/durum-wheat-production

 

West Australian Hard wheat is also a sought-after premium product, with a protein content of around 12%, and around 95% of W.A.'s wheat is exported to Asia and the M.E. W.A.'s annual wheat tonnage has been steadily increasing in recent decades, despite the farmed area staying fairly static. W.A. produces over 50% of Australia's wheat.

 

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/grains-research-development/western-australian-wheat-industry

 

Britain is a big market that Australian producers of grains and meat would be happy to supply, if Britain was seeking more of those products from Australia. Shipping cost differences are likely not the big problem it would appear to be, with large bulk carriers being very economic over long distances. It's the holdups in ports that affect shipping costs, and internal transport costs within the various countries.

Shipping to Britain from a European State would involve substantial internal costs due to old infrastructure and convoluted shipping routes and methods. Our road transport system in Australia is very effective and low cost, due to a substantial level of B-doubles and road trains.

Edited November 1, 2020 by onetrack

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

There's more to the equation than just grain prices

Onetrack, your whole post is very encouraging. I feel better for having read it. 

 

There is a reverse side to exports, though. We have to take things as imports to balance the trade. Does that mean that, once Britain re-establishes its manufacturing industries we'll be importing Manchester cotton, Sheffield cutlery and British Leyland cars?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I agree with OME - OT's post is very encouraging.

 

I am not going to do the research and I know little about the agri sector, so what I am saying is based more on anecdotal evidence an reading the news.

 

There is opportunity for Australia under a free trade agreement and if Australian food standards are closer to European than the US (e.g. no chlorinated cleaned chickens, free of genetic modification, etc)., then the UK entering a free trade agreement with the US will be to Australia's advantage (assuming Australia also has a FTA with the UK).  The US - probably sensing Boris' desperation to make trade deals to fill the void has said, under the Trump administration, that opening UK markets to general US agricultural foods, which is chemically ravaged, as a red line. This includes chlorinated chicken, GM meats and crops, and god knows what else. There has been a backlash about allowing changing of food standards without appropriate regulatory scrutiny, with the House of Lords backing an amendment requiring an independent review of changing food standards at the least. The Conservatives in the House of Commons assert as this would require extra government spending (of about 3 people full time), this amounts to a money supply bill and by convention the House of Lords cannot constitutionally initiate money supply bills or amendments that change money supply bills. Unforutnately, the House of Commons have not read their own definition: https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/money-bills/. This is getting a lot of traction in the press at the moment. Note, there was somethng in the press today that if Biden wins, the UK goes back to the back of the trade agreement queue with the USA as they don't want us to leave. Nancy Pelosi has also been meddling in internal UK affairs by saying no free trade agreement with the UK if they put up a hard border between Northern Ireland and Eire.

 

In addition, the US are demanding, to make it harder for consumers to discern the difference by requiring labelling laws to be significantly loosened, something apparently BJ is in agreement of. There is a public education and even a backlash amongst House of Commons Conservative backbenchers... so it has a way to go. But, if Australia's food standards are more akin to the UK and Europe than the US, even if a bit more expensive, it will have a ready market just by having a label saying produced in Australia.

 

There are some things I probably wouldn't try to import to the UK, such as cheese, supermarket grade meats, etc. I think it is too competitive.. Higher end stuff would be OK. Also, Aussie wine imports seem to have dropped off over the last 5 - 10 years and an opening up of quality wines I think would bode well. Also, the UK supermarket bill is set to increase by a predicted 30% due to the tarrifs on EU foods and the withdrawal of subsidies from UK farmers. Assuming a FTA with Aus that would eliminate tarrifs, even with the longer distances and higher transport costs, Australia could become very competitive in this market (I am looking at a couple of things). Britain can also take some of what other countries in the EU provide, where there are substitute products.,

 

 

[old man emu]

Australian food standards align pretty well with EU standards. A lot of our supermarket goods, especially at ALDI, are sourced from EU countries. My bitch is that a lot are also sourced from dubious Asian producers. Our animal meats are free from artificial hormones, and beef and lamb are generally grass fed, so are leaner. 

 

But what about British manufactured goods? From what I've seen from programs such as Wheeler Dealers (when it was actually made in Britain), the old manufacturing skills are only being kept up by blokes working in lock-ups on industrial estates. What has happened to the heavy manufacturing that built the Empire?

[willedoo]

32 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Our animal meats are free from artificial hormones, and beef and lamb are generally grass fed, so are leaner. 

Most butchered beef is grain finished in feedlots, but you are right, in Australia the percentage of time spent on grass is much longer, giving leaner meat. Usually the only 100% grass fed beef in the supermarkets is the cheaper culled cow beef. In my opinion, if it's not tough, it's a lot tastier.

 

About 40% of cattle have hormone implants.

https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/generalissues/hormonalgrowth/pages/default.aspx

Edited November 1, 2020 by willedoo

[old man emu]

Hormonal growth promotants (HGPs) are naturally occurring hormones such as oestrogen, or synthetic alternatives, which are used in cattle to accelerate weight gain. HGPs— used safely in Australia for more than 30 years—are used on about 40 per cent of Australian cattle and annually add $210 million to the value of the beef industry.

 

From the above reference: They improve the efficiency by which cattle convert stockfeed into meat, allowing cattle to be processed earlier with less stock feed consumed. So HGPs would seem to be used in feedlots, not open country.  From the same reference: The European Union (EU) has banned their use and will not import products from cattle given HGPs. So, when Britain gets out of the EU, the doors open to our beef. 

 

Typical EU double-speak: According to research by the European Federation of Animal Health, a single consumer would need to eat more than 77 kilograms of beef from an HGP-treated beast in one sitting to get the same level of oestrogen hormone found in one egg.

[Yenn]

What does the hormonal growth promotant do to the people who eat it. Is it having ant effect?

My wife reads a lot of stuff about what is suposedly bad for us and also about what is happening to our health. A lot of that stuff in my opinion is rubbish, but there is some I have seen which raises questions. I read about people in their thirties who do not have a healthy sex life, men can't get it up and fertility rates are down. Just looking at the population I wonder where the big bronzed Anzac has gone. We now all look overweight and sickly. I don't think it can all be put down to overeating, but is more related to what we are eating.