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BREXIT.


Phil Perry

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I never thought it would happen and Theresa May certainly didn't try very hard to make it happen. There was a referendum and the majority wanted out. They were told the consequences, before the vote and they still wanted out.

 

A large number of course wanted to stay and they thought they could achieve that aim, at least until Boris came on the scene. He didn't do anything wrong, except that he made the parliament work.

 

He is a product of the old school / establishment, but he is also apparently a dinkum bloke.

 

How it all pans out is yet to be seen, but the Poms are getting what they wanted. If Scotland wanted to stay in the EU, they should have got out of the UK first. If Ireland wanted to stay in the EU I reckon they should have got out of the UK and united with Eire. Over the years the Poms have had more trouble with Ireland than they are worth. I have fond memories of the IRA from my time in the British army, unlike many I could walk away with a smile on my face.

 

 

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there are higher standards for environmental, labour, consumer and human rights than most other countries

 

I think that the British people are practiced enough to absorb customs that they see are better than what they had. Weren't the British populous active pursuers of labour rights from the very start of the campaigns?

 

I doubt that anyone can disagree with the expectation that for the next five years after December 2020 with be somewhat unsettled for the British Economy in all areas, and that there will be some social disarrangement, but after that time I expect to see Britain being a better place to live in than it was in 2015.

 

 

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Britain still retains it,s Own military forces,  keeps it,s Own laws.

 

All that money Euro took, most northern Brits, saw nothing from it,  except Loss of jobs.

 

Lots of firms were paid to shut shop & move to eastern Europe, courtesy of another countries dictate.

 

spacesailor

 

 

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@NT5224, I wonder exactly what Nigel Farage has to gain by leaving the EU.. I don't know what his personal interests are, but surely, if he simply resigned or stood down at the last MEP election, he could have retired blissfully on his pension even if the UK stayed in the EU.

 

I think the argument to stay in or leave the EU were fought on philosophical and ideological lines rather than any rationality. For example, no one could adequately quantify a simple question - what is the monetary cost to be in the EU verusus the monetary benefit and arrive at a net position. Of course, it is more ocmplicated than that, but once one understands the net cost or surplus, they can then talk about the other non-monetary obligations and rights/benefits.

 

The reality, much more damage to the UK economy has been done by the dithering of the previous PM.. Investment has been virtually on hold as has been any of the value-add employment (yes, less skilled labour market has been buoyant). I have seen not only more skilled positions come to the market, but the rates are up slightly as well..

 

With respect to Brexit playing to a small group of players - I think it is fair to say being in the EU felt like that, too. The CAP being the main exception, although it feels like that was to placate a small set of key agri-players in France and Italy rather than anything for the common good. Almost all political/regulatory developments from Europe were more selfserving of the EU Eurocrats/powerbase than actually for the greaster good. As mentioned earlier, literally billions had been spent by industries to conform to lofty and undecipherable regulations and directives - and there is still differences across the Union that make it not a level playing field.

 

BTW - it has been the EU's own actions, coupled with a sensationalistic press that have brought it upon themselves. Take EASA under Patrick Gordoux - a madman left unaccountable for 10 years despite UK protestations that he was wrecking the private side of GA with his harmonisation of regulating that sector of the industry to the same levels of CAT (RPT). Tjis highlighted how unaccountable the Eurocracy is - of course, until it awoke France who at the first hint of opposition, the EU announced a review - to be le by DGAC. Well, a lot of pilots who pown businesses that sell into or are integrated with business of the EU voted to leave - sometimes there is more than money at stake.

 

What are the downsides to leaving the EU? No doubt, EU imports will become more expensive as even if the government didn't want to tax imports, they will need to in order to pay for some of their promises. There will be job losses in manufacturing over the next 2 - 5 years as EU based companies repatriate their bases.. ALthough, if the £ takes another hit and with the already more flexible labour laws, there may be an incentive to keep them in the UK, so maybe not the job losses feared. The financial industry will be somewhat hit; although if as predicted by the nay-sayers, it would mean that the EU has to positively and blatantly discriminate against British institutions compared to other third country institutions.

 

And although I berate the level and complexity of regulation, there are higher standards for environmental, labour, cosumer and human rights than most other countries - although not all countries in the EU seem to really have to abide by all of them. Take the Eastern states and human rights or areas such as basic democracy (political independence of the judiciary in Poland I think, was one issue). It seems that money talks in all regimes...

 

What are the upsides? Well, we will have to wait and see. Sovereignty (which we already had) does not equal power. And a FTA with Australia won't compensate for a WTO arrangement with the EU. However, there have already been decisions taken that are in the face of current EU regulation, which one could aregue pursue British interests... Flybe has been subsidised to keep its regional routes open (although there is criticism as it may be that it is supporting poor commercial management, however, it is to ensure at least in the short term, people travelling regionally are not disadvantaged). Personally, I think that innovation can be better incubated, althought don't hold one's breath.. And of course, we have an extra c. £320m to £360m per week to play with.. I may go down to the casino tonight... The benefits will greatly depend on the way the conomy is managed privately and publicly.

 

Re BoJo's liar qualities, the words of many American friends of mine... Oh, Please! Are you telling me politicians don't lie for their own purposes? And also are you telling me politicians aren't self-serving oafs in it for their own aspirations of power, but are in it for unequivocal commitment to the masses? His private life is riddled with controversial relationships and probably kids he doesn't know he was.. But, as a politician, he has promised one thing... and delivered it when it looked like Westminster was paralysed - Brexit. That was his whole campaign.. "Get Brexit Done".. When asked what his policy was with respect to any subject, such as, improving the standard of living for destitude and battered women, his response would have been, as it was to everything else now, "This is not a time to talk about that.. People want me to GET BREXIT DONE." He is as polarising as Marmite (can't use vegemite as they don't have the same ad slogan): You love him or hate him... Well, actually.. I don't love or hate BoJo.. But then, I don't love or hate Marmite..

 

My concern is that all of this is happening against a backdrop of rising prejudice throughout the world, but also Europe.. particulalry more blatant popularism anf facism, racial abuse and anti-semetism.. Shades of the 30s are appearing again... and this is worrying...

 

Jerry_Atrick

 

Thanks for that clear exposition. You're  over in UK,   so I defer to your better informed insight of the Brexit issue. 

 

Im no fan of Mr Farrage as you can tell. I agree had he resigned before the latest elections he could have walked away with his EU life pension. But I consider it gross hypocrisy that he constantly criticized the institution and agitated against it it on account of its lavish spending and cost to the British tax payer, when he then walks away at considerable cost to that same taxpayer on the EU purse.   His pension alone will account for a part of sum within the terms of settlement the UK pays to the EU for its departure. Was any of this interest declared prior to his campaigning against the EU?  Mr Farrages contribution  to  the EU was essentially disruptive at best and I believe there were questions raised about him claiming EU expenses to orchestrate campaigns against it.  Will  Mr Farrage be renouncing the priviledges of EU (German) citizenship for his own children, given  he is so ardently against the EU? I find the blatant  hypocrisy astounding, even in todays world when our expectations of those in public life are already so low.

 

I agree that the long term outcomes and cost benefits of EU departure will take several years to become evident, but unfortunately by then it will be too late to do anything about. Application of the precautionary principle would have suggested the need for a better informed decision before the  decision was made.

 

What was the quality of information available to the decision-making public in UK prior to the referendum? Remember this was a decision of monumental social, economic,  and strategic importance to the UK and at the time the public voted there was no knowledge of what Brexit would cost, what it would look like, and how it could be implemented. Three years later these things are still unknown and yet Brexit has occurred  -in the absence of any knowledge.  That to me says it all about the calibre of Britains political leaders.

 

History will judge.

 

Alan

 

 

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Jerry_Atrick

 

<snip>

 

Im no fan of Mr Farrage as you can tell. I agree had he resigned before the latest elections he could have walked away with his EU life pension. But I consider it gross hypocrisy that he constantly criticized the institution and agitated against it it on account of its lavish spending and cost to the British tax payer, when he then walks away at considerable cost to that same taxpayer on the EU purse.   His pension alone will account for a part of sum within the terms of settlement the UK pays to the EU for its departure.

 

<snip>

 

What was the quality of information available to the decision-making public in UK prior to the referendum? Remember this was a decision of monumental social, economic,  and strategic importance to the UK and at the time the public voted there was no knowledge of what Brexit would cost, what it would look like, and how it could be implemented. Three years later these things are still unknown and yet Brexit has occurred  -in the absence of any knowledge.  That to me says it all about the calibre of Britains political leaders

 

<snip>

 

 

 

On the above, I think we can violently agree. I, too, am certainly no fan of Mr Farage, and while he was using a perfectly credible tactic and attempting to destroy from within - much like a cancer - his intention to draw from the UK purse via the EU is blatant hypocrisy - especially as an ex either commodities or swaps trader in the time when the big bonuses were paid just for sitting at a desk on the trading floor - who cared if it was profit or loss. He has pleaded being a church mouse recently on account of his now divoorced wife taking his spoils.. Still, there is no way he is poor.. So, like every other pollie, snout at trough, etc.

 

And as for the calibre of British pollies - well.. reflective of what is around the world at the moment..

 

Personally, I hope that we do a free trade deal with Aus that includes free movement. I have seen a marked drop in the number of Aussies in bars and also in banking where I work now (though there is a cute Brissie girl on our floor - too youg for me - I would hurt myself - but what a way to go!!). Also, if we can knock the duty off importing Aussie wines, forget the Yellow Tail (crap made in Griffith only for the UK market), Jacobs Creek, etc (although I found a place I can get Yering Station - but not their best). I am importing Mornington Peninusla, Yarra Valley, Gippy, Coonawarra, good Barossa, Hunter Valley, Warwick (or thereabouts), decent Margaret River stuff.. more boutique than the mass produced plonk.. Oh, of course, Bellarine Peninsula, too (you  can sort of tell where I come from)...

 

And I was looking at importing Morgan Aeroworks as well - but they have changed hands.. Brumby now run if not owned by the Chinese... Maybe ALW - will need to speak to them..

 

Of course, I will look at exporting to... Not sure what... Maybe darker coal ?

 

For some humour (also in Funny Pictures):

 

spacer.png

 

 

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@old man emu, when I first arrived in the UK, I was astonished at, compared to Aus, how badly their unskilled workers were treated for the 5th largest economy and a liberal (though less so than Aus) political system. And the UK had more derogations and concessions from EU requirements than most.

 

Over here, we now have zero hours contracts - you can have a job but they don't guarantee you work and don't guarantee you pay. A law was only recently passed to make void conditions of zero hours contracts restrictions on having other "jobs" at the same time. Zero hours contracts are otherwise explicitly outlawed in the rest of Europe. One of the attractions of the UK in EU world is its "flexibile" labour force (read opressed for those without power).

 

I am finishing my work at the end of Feb.. Decided I am not renewing.. I will have to find work within a reasonable period - private school fees + we have a fixer-upper of a house - all first world problems.. But, I have enough skills and experience (across IT, Nuclear site engineering consultiung and Banking - all the best industries - maybe I will try real estate or used car sales next) to at least not be beholden to those that people who have not had the same opportunity as me have to suffer...

 

Having said that, I am looking at buying the lease to a pub! If I do, you're all welcome to come over for a pint.. First one on the house for WAU and RF members.

 

 

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As it stands, it is one of the few things I can cook! Sell, the pudding, anyway,, the other bits not so well.. Well, maybe OK..

 

That meal is desperately missing gravy... Even a little pot on the side to allow the punters to pur how much they need...

 

Anyway, I am hoping my village pub comes up for sale.. The one I am looking at (https://www.findmypub.com/properties/view/24197)  is about 7 miles from where we live.. And with the hours required, would prefer to be at home (note, there is a 4br residence with the pub, but I don't fancy my chances getting the family to move in).

 

Also - prefer to buy the freehold..

 

 

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That is one of the reasons my local isn't doing so well.. Nice enough bloke, but just the wrong disposition for running a pub - outwardly a real gumblebum. I was in there on Satruday night and there were four other punters.. plus us made 6 - without food, there's nowt much to be made. It is nowhere near as rustic as the one linked to above, but a bit of remodelling and it could be. Also an affluet-ish area, and no competition for some distance.. Should be doing better..

 

 

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Watering holes struggle - have to do good pub grub food at a reasonable price and put something on for the kiddies. Most landlords say that they subsidise the local drinkers more than anything else. It's a tough game, but one that can earn a decent emough living - don't know if it leaves enough time for flying though...

 

I have an even better idea for Aus.. But I am keeping it a secret for now...  Retirement plan

 

 

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My younger son runs a pub in Ascot Vale, up the road from Melbourne Showgrounds and Moonee Valley Racecourse. He is a junior partner in the ownership group. He is in the check shirt, 1st photo 2nd row. The red roof in the function area is a retractable canvas roof for open air functions. No pokies. Four large TV's in the Bistro Bar (last photo) showing multiple sports events (horse racing, cricket, football, etc.)

 

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You have to admit that Aussie pubs are a completely different fish from British pubs. Aussie pubs are brash, loud and cold, whereas British pubs are subdued, murmuring and cosy. You go to a British pub to meet your neighbours and linger over a beer or two. Typically the meals there are traditional and cooked, not fried. You'd be hard pressed to find a squashed potato in a British pub, let alone a smashed avo. They don't turn the volume of the background music up to 11.

 

Can anyone tell me what killed the pub music scene that was vibrant in Australia in the 1970's?

 

 

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The Union above has live music one night a week. Popular family pub, a few kids during the day in the bistro. Popular with sportsmen. Aaron Finch was in there one day when we went for lunch. The Carlton football team were there one night when we were with a group of my wife's work colleagues. It was a trivia night with prizes, normally held every Tuesday night. TAB around the other side in the public bar (second photo).

 

 

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When I was back in Melbourne in 2003 - 2005, there was an English style pub called something like the ELephant and Wheelbarrow. There wasn no hand-pumped pulling of beer.. the Old Speckled Hen was poured through a jet and it was CHILLED... Though, sitting in 30 od degree heat, I understand - so I used to buy two pints; one for now and one for taking the chill off it but leaving it at bearable temperature..

 

They are different in the UK because the UK has a different culture - many people lived in houses where there front (living) room was too small to entertain people so the pub was an extension of the front room for a long time. Although the preserve of the men in the past, families would still go, but the women and children went to the dining room - much like was the case in the early 2000's in country Victoria.. Pubs here have matured many years ago and are much more inclusive, have character and are still an extension of the front toom.

 

My Aus plan is not a pub.. at least not in the same way they are in England.. Aus also has its quaint and character cultures and destinations.. My idea squarely involves aviation... something that Australia does many, many times better than over here (on the social and club scene).

 

 

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One common misconception of beer served in the United Kingdom concerns the serving temperature: it is believed that British beer is served warm. In reality, beer in the UK is usually served at cellar temperature (between 10–14 °C (50–57 °F)). Proponents of British beer say that it relies on subtler flavours than that of other nations, and these are brought out by serving it at a temperature that would make other beers seem harsh.

 

In the 15th century, an unhopped beer would have been known as an ale, while the use of hops would make it a beer. The Brewers Company of London stated "no hops, herbs, or other like thing be put into any ale or liquore wherof ale shall be made — but only liquor (water), malt, and yeast." 

 

Ale is made of malte and water; and they the which do put any other thynge to ale than is rehersed, except yest, barme, or goddesgood [three words for yeast], doth sophysticat there ale. Ale for an Englysshe man is a naturall drinke. Ale muste haue these properties, it muste be fresshe and cleare, it muste not be ropy, nor smoky, nor it must haue no wefte nor tayle. Ale shulde not be dronke vnder.v.[5] dayes olde .... Barly malte maketh better ale than Oten malte or any other corne doth ... Beere is made of malte, of hoppes, and water; it is a naturall drynke for a doche [Dutch] man, and nowe of late dayes [recently] it is moche vsed in Englande to the detryment of many Englysshe men ... for the drynke is a colde drynke. Yet it doth make a man fatte, and doth inflate the bely, as it doth appere by the doche mennes faces and belyes. An early reference to beet "putting a gut on ya"

 

 

 

 

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Darn it.. I just bought my partner McLeods Daughter and Kath & Kim DVDs for her birthday - forgot about this movie!

 

One of the worst things to hit pubs in Aus are the bluddy pokies, I used to got to, I think it was the Union in Armadale (can't actually recall its name) on a Friday  and Saturday night for live music.. Then one Friday, out of the blue, no more music - apparently it was being refurbished to nstall pokies. And they destroyed what character and ambience the pub had.. which wasn't much, anyway. They sprung up lice rabbits without myxomatosis - everywhere. Even the Hawthorn Footy Club Social Clubm when it was opposite Glenferrie oval put the bleedin things in!

 

ALas, many, usually more traditional watering hole pubs in the UK now have a couple of slot machines of some sort- but they are used more for a few minutes of whiling away the time than the addictive creatures they were in Victoria (darned Joan Kirner -  think it was her guvmint that authorised them).

 

The variety of beer available in pubs here is quite good.. Usually a chilled lager or two (Peroni is my favoutite on draf t- bottle is not too good); bitters, IPA, sometimes an ale, Cider (not really beer and I don't like it that much). Even breewery owned pubs will allow guest beers, usually something brewed locally and independent as they realise a healthy pub scene is vital to their interests.

 

We are heading to a pub not too far away for lunch today.. Although story Ciara is bearing down on us (forecast 60kt winds where we are), so may stay put until it passes.

 

 

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Are you "sophisticated"?

 

"Sophisticated" meaning either refined, cultured or highly developed, complicated, is surprisingly recent. The application of the word to people meaning experienced, refined can only be dated to 1895. Sophisticated originally meant mixed with a foreign substance, adulterated or altered from a natural state. So you can see what "they the which do put any other thynge to ale than is rehersed, except yest, barme, or goddesgood [three words for yeast], doth sophysticat there ale" meant at the time it was written in the 1400's.  Around 1400 when it appears in a version of The Book of John Mandeville:

 

It fallez oft tyme þat marchands sophisticatez peper.



(It happens oftentimes that merchants sophisticate pepper.)

 

 

 

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