Are there any Creationists out there?

[nomadpete]

But Marty, re old ladies and life on third rock from the sun, there may be planets like ours, but for how long are they habitable by people like us? Each of these Goldilocks planets will be on a different timeline from ours. They might equally be at the end of their period of "suitable" for life (as we know it). Too many maybe's in that construct

 

 

[Marty_d]

But Marty, for how long? Each of these Goldilocks planets will be on a different timeline from ours. They might equally be at the end of their period of "suitable" for life (as we know it). Too many maybe's in that construct

Thousands may be. But to quote Billy-Bob Thornton in Armageddon... "It's a big-ass sky!"

 

Our view of the universe is kind of like an ant looking at the entire Earth. We don't even know, yet, whether rocky planets around G2V stars are extremely common or not. If it turns out they are, then pure mathematics would put the chances of there being a large number within the Goldilocks zone. It'll be interesting to see what the recently launched satellite uncovers (can't remember its name).

 

 

[nomadpete]

But why do we obsess about Goldilocks?

 

There are an infinite number of possible "life forms" that mightn't rely on oxygen, carbon and water.

 

And they might or might not have their own mineral based gods.

 

 

[Marty_d]

True, but we want to wipe them out and steal their planet after we fully trash this one.

 

 

[facthunter]

Some time back they thought that there would be many planets like ours. I think it might be far less common than we previously thought even allowing for the vastness of the known universe. For Others to have evolved identical to us would be close to impossible. The longer the timespan the less the chance of a repetition. Good thing too. We are far from perfect. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...For Others to have evolved identical to us would be close to impossible. ...

Unless Rupert Sheldrake is right and Morphic Fields extend across the cosmos.

 

Morphic Resonance and Mophic Fields an Introduction

 

 

[Bruce]

Here's a very unusual thing about this planet. It is almost a binary with its big moon. Now that moon is essential to keep the axis of rotation stable. Without this the axis tilt would vary like Mars and agriculture would never have started.

 

I reckon its very likely there are no other similar planets. And we might well have ruined this one already.

 

But here is what is sad... geo-engineering could save us if we for example put thousands of sunshades in orbit . Alas we are squandering the resources which could have done this by fighting amongst ourselves. US plus China military budgets comes to about 1000 billion dollars.

 

 

[facthunter]

And if the little Boys have a pile of firecrackers they will want to let them off, won't they? Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Are those who say farmed animals don't have a good life really aware of what farmed animal life is really like. The beef reared around here is living a good life right up to the day of slaughter. In my days years ago, working with beef, shep pigs and poultry, we had to provide a good lifestyle for them or they would not prosper. Farmers can't afford to mistreat animals, with the exception of modern factory farming methods. Those methods of course are designed to keep the cost of meat down to the consumer. Actually naturally fed meat tastes better than the factory produced stuff, but we do pay a premium for it.

 

 

[nomadpete]

But Yenn, most of the plebs can't taste the difference otherwise good tasting meat would be in demand.

 

 

[Yenn]

They don't get the chance, the good tasting stuff is not in the supermarket as the mark up is not high enough for Coles, Woolies etc.

 

I buy mine from a local grower, who spends a lot of time carting it 150km or more, to sell at local markets or deliver previously ordered meat.

 

The price is higher, but the extra work and fuel used would not cover the cost.

 

I was producing milk in the sixties for 36 pence a gallon. That is 30 cents. In the intervening years wages have gone from about $25 per week to I don't know what but milk has increased about 12 fold in price. Wages should be about $300 and I am sure they are a lot higher than that.

 

 

[Bruce]

What sort of meat Yenn?

 

I sure agree with you about wages and prices. I would love to be able to have a young helper around here, but the costs of employing anybody are way higher than the returns their labour can produce. And then there is the legal risk, you could lose the whole farm from an injury claim. Turbs says to stop complaining and think of a scheme so profitable that we can employ people and still make money. Well I'm trying but need to be smarter than I am. In the meantime, its better to produce less and be safer.

 

Did you see the proposal to force new immigrants to spend some years in "regions" ? Maybe there will be thousands of new immigrants on welfare around here, and we will not be able to afford them either.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Australia imports about 70% of our sea food. Now a whole section of our fishing industry is under threat of collapsing, and big retailers' control of the market is involved.

 

'Going broke with freezers full of fish': Wild barramundi industry at risk of collapse

 

 

[Yenn]

We buy grass fed beef, sheep and goat meat, plus free range pig meat. Sadly our chook grower closed up and is moving to a bigger property and we don't know, if or when he will resume production.

 

Factory produced food is poor. I had a restaurant meal in Victoria, supposedly rabbit, but it was so tasteless that I complained bitterly and got it for half price. Having grown up eating rabbit, both caged bunnies that I kept and those I shot in the wild, I reckon I know what it tastes like.

 

As for seafood, we have one of the longest coastlines of any country and only a tiny population, but we import 70% according to Old Koreelah. No doubt other countries are plundering our offshore fisheries.

 

 

[spacesailor]

YEN

 

"Factory produced food is poor."

 

My Grandkids wouldn't know What food taste's like, as they smother everything with sauce.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The sauce is necessary to provide some flavour to the factory food. Tried a frozen pizza lately?

 

 

[Bruce]

Tomato sauce is apparently surprisingly good for you. There is something in tomatoes which needs cooking to make available.

 

And I will argue that rainfed pasture meat is kinder to animal life and the environment than what vegetarians eat.

 

 

[facthunter]

That is true but the SALT and SUGAR aren't that good. Vegetables don't emit Methane till you turn them into Peat and let the atmosphere get at them Takes billions of years. The ANIMALS have to eat vegetables, seeds nuts and grasses so they have to be there anyhow, Vegans are PEOPLE too. Until they force YOU to be one what's the problem? Forcing someone to BELIEVE in a certain form of a god is a frightening concept though. Surely you would just tell a lie and pretend you believed and keep your head. Forcing someone to believe. That doesn't make sense, does it?

 

 

[Bruce]

I don't have any problem with accepting vegans and in fact I admire them. There was one who was a mate of mine and he used to complain to me of open-class gliding tasks under 600km on the grounds they were artificially short to suit unhealthy people who couldn't fly with complete concentration for 6 or 7 hours at a time. He flew an ASH 25 at the time.

 

What I object to is the portrayal of meat-producers as being cruel to animals and destructive of the environment. Maybe caged animals fed with irrigated grain fit this criticism, but grass-fed pasture animals sure don't. Just look up stuff on " food and the environment " and you will see the nonsense I am referring to.

 

 

[facthunter]

Vegans might be Vegans for many reasons. Dangerous to classify a group as being all identical Like..." ALL you Chinese look the same to me" syndrome. ACTUALLY have a good LOOK. They are quite diverse in appearance. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

That's right Nev. Some are vegans for their own health and they are different from those who are vegans for animal-rights reasons.

 

I guess they are all healthier than the rest of us, but it can't be by that much or we would be swamped with vegan centenarians.

 

 

[facthunter]

Perhaps we will. There are some places where ailments that are common to other places don't exist. Not many, but appears to be mainly diet related. Many Doctors used to Poo poo diet as a factor in disease. They are a diminishing group now. Wild meat is different from a lot of Farmed meat. There's a recent account of someone living in New Zealand and living for long periods out of contact entirely from "normal" sources of food. Certainly NOT a Vegan diet but some very interesting health effects, observed. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think there's some very long-lived people in Japan, up near the 120 year mark. Diet high in fish and vegetables, low body weight and small frame.

 

Of course, some might say that if you have to forego steak, roasts, pudding, fresh bread, bacon, lasagna, coffee and all the other "bad" comfort foods, what's the point of living that long?

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Of course, some might say that if you have to forego steak, roasts, pudding, fresh bread, bacon, lasagna, coffee and all the other "bad" comfort foods, what's the point of living that long?"

 

A French woperson (woman) was the eldest for a while, She smoked(till 100) Drank Free wine & ate everything on the menu, the restaurants in France wouldn't let her pay for anything as they considered her as a Honored guest.

 

IT should happen to one of us, you could shout a dinner for the forum member's.

 

LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

. She is not living that long because she has smoked. She is doing it DESPITE having done those things. Health is the MOST important thing you can have in life. Money wont buy it.. Without it, your life is "pretty Crap" as the youngsters would say, though richer people live longer in many circumstances as they can afford better food and medicine .I used to smoke , You stink when you do and it's about the most stupid thing a supposedly thinking person could do to them selves. Those around you don't get asked if you can blow rotten smoke all over them either, and I'm mortified to recall how I used to smoke everywhere.. Australia has come a long way in the smoking thing. Good result. but not there fully.. It's easy Just stop. You will breathe better and things will taste and smell better in a week and it keeps getting better after that.. Nev