Sanctions against Russia

[Yenn]

The lies and deception go on today, or maybe yesterday.

The Weekend Australian has a big article about civic, decrying the lockdowns, which it infers had no success and were just a case of state governments bullying the people. They do not mention that the State governments were trying, successfully as it turns out, to prevent our health system from collapsing under overload. They paint the state governments as being bad for us. In reality if we had let the Feds have their way, the hospitals would have become a disaster, with many dieing and the medical staff completely exhausted. That was what the PM was aiming for. Of course the more old people who die, the less the federal government has to pay out for.

[Old Koreelah]

19 hours ago, Yenn said:

The lies and deception go on today, or maybe yesterday.

The Weekend Australian has a big article about civic, decrying the lockdowns…

Another paper owned by Murdoch. People forget how he and his father have been king-makers in Australia by manipulating public opinion for over a century.

[Yenn]

Even they are having trouble painting the present government in a good light.

[Old Koreelah]

9 minutes ago, Yenn said:

Even they are having trouble painting the present government in a good light.

They don’t have to; all they have to do is make the alternative look dodgy.

[old man emu]

34 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

They don’t have to; all they have to do is make the alternative look dodgy.

A skill that is in their genes.

[onetrack]

The Federal Labor mob aren't exactly helping themselves by providing an insipid level of Opposition and by not producing any leaders with drive, determination and leadership skills.

Albanese wouldn't make a leader of a country in a thousand years, he has about as much drive, determination and charisma as a packet of laundry powder.

He paid a visit to W.A. over the last week on a Federal election campaign visit, and he didn't even make a ripple in the local news.

[Old Koreelah]

7 minutes ago, onetrack said:

…He paid a visit to W.A. over the last week on a Federal election campaign visit, and he didn't even make a ripple in the local news.

Could that be blamed in the man or the media?

[Jerry_Atrick]

You can't blame a man for his dispositional traits.. Albanese is probably an excellent deputy, but a leader he ain't. Yes, even the regional press, as with MSM, is predominantly Murdoch and then Fairfax owned, but a visit from a leader that caused concern to the cause would have attracted press coverage, just to portray him in as much a negative light as possible. If OT's account is correct, it appears Albo's presence didn't even warrant them rehashing some old garb and stock photos.

 

I cannot believe the ALP don't have someone of more leadership qualities.. Whether we like it or not charisma and powerful oratory skills are an important part of political leadership.. and Albo sadly lacks them. I blame the ALP's power machine in this case. Yeah - thre press and Palmer conspired against Shorten - but they would have made sure they covered his visit.

 

[Old Koreelah]

31 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I cannot believe the ALP don't have someone of more leadership qualities.. Whether we like it or not charisma and powerful oratory skills are an important part of political leadership..

They do; spend a bit of time watching/listening to parliament and you’d be impressed by their depth of talent. Unfortunately, very few voters do.

31 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I blame the ALP's power machine in this case…

I blame Kevin Rudd; an impressive, but flawed leader who tossed a grenade over his shoulder on his way out. His changes to the rules made sure any future leadership change would take many weeks, plenty of time for the LNP to call an early election to capitalise on Labor disunity.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Kevin Rudd may have instigated the change, but that can be reversed or improved.. Rudd has all but gone and the ALP power machine is still to blame

[Old Koreelah]

Back to topic…

I wonder how loyal Putin’s rich mates will be when they realise he moved his luxury yacht to safer waters before he invaded Ukraine, but their foreign assetts and super yachts have been confiscated.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/putin-yacht-graceful-left-germany-amid-sanction-threats-report-2022-2?r=US&IR=T

 

An old song that’s still relevant:

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Biden and Johnson announced banning imports of Russian energy... The UK doesn't import too much, but it will bite. The markets will go nuts, but, China will pick up the slack no doubt.

 

Zelensky addressed the UK Parliament today. Below (from about 9:42) is the video. He looks absolutely exhausted.,. .

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

While this thread is Sanctions against Russia, I am taking it to include generally the War in Ukraine (that is what it is)

 

This is interesting:

 

[willedoo]

A very interesting video. Zelensky has quite an advantage in the media war with his past experience as a professional TV actor. He's no stranger to production,editing, and acting in front of cameras. If he and Ukraine survive the war, I would think he'd easily win a second term as president if he decided to run again.

 

It was interesting to see former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko on the TV news last night. He was done up in full military gear appearing with soldiers receiving western arms, and giving his mate Tony Abbott a big shout out on camera. I guess with a war situation, he's free to come and go on bail. With the future of Ukraine unclear, he might never go to court on his treason and support for terrorism charges.

[willedoo]

I think Putin's war has finally exposed a couple of myths for what they are. The first one is Putin's narrative that NATO poses an existential threat to Russia. Recent events have shown that NATO and the US have no stomach for war with Russia to help a third country. If they won't step into Ukraine out of fear of war with Russia, where's the logic that Russia faces a threat of NATO invasion on it's own soil?

 

The second one is the past opinions of analysts and commentators about Russia's might and ability to win a conventional war against NATO. At this stage, Russia is not doing too well in Ukraine by any standards. NATO would certainly be taking a long hard look at Russia's progress and ability there. Past analysis has said Russia could take the Baltics in a matter of days. Admittedly, from a geographical point of view, the Baltic Countries would be easier to cut off with the support of Belarus, but the Russian performance in Ukraine throws a lot of past opinions into doubt.

[Jerry_Atrick]

It also exposes a lot of truths about the Putin regime that people either didn't believe or were prepared to turn a blind eye in exchange for cheaper gas/energy. Ultimately, the true price of everything has to be paid - the currency it is paid for is not necessarily money.

 

I can only see three outcomes of this:

• Putin is removed internally as the sanctions bite. I don't see this as likely as his grip on power is iron clad and his cronies are well looked after to keep that grip. Also, who would take over - another KGB henchman who would probably continue or do worse. His removal is no guarantee that anything the Ukraine or beyond will stop. I would imagine he would even eye lesser NATO states in the probable belief that NATO would throw them under the bus to avoid a war (Poland is not a minor NATO state - I am thinking, e.g. Latvia).
• The west continue with sanctions and weapons, but ultimately, Ukraine will cave in, and the wet will do nothing else. Effectively, an ally has been allowed to be taken over. If this is the case, then all countries have to assess their allegiances and strategies. For example, if Australia was attacked by a major force, what would our allies do?
• The wet, acting outside NATO eventually get involved. The USA has decalssified the latest intelligence suggesting that Russia is preparing for a biological attack and are using the allegation that Ukraine was developing biological capability with the help of the US.. another flag.. If they launch a biological attack, what will happen? My guess is the west (not under the auspices of NATO) will go for it.. but do they go into Ukraine, or say, sod it.. if we go into Ukraine, Russia will go after other European countries, and just go into Russia.. That will drag Syria in as Syria owe Russia; Pakistan probably, and most likely China if latest news that China is overtly showing support for Russia.. and there you have it... WWIII

[nomadpete]

I don't like any of your scenarios Jerry.

 

And item 3 sounds like a rerun of the Hussein/WMD saga. And that was a terrible bloodbath even without involving nucular weapons.

 

I'm starting to hope that the Ukrane caves in really fast.

Holding out will only result in more and more death and destruction. The west is prolonging the inevitable by supplying weapons to Ukrane, and increasing the liklihood of a very rapid escalation to WW3.

[Old Koreelah]

If Putin takes all of Ukraine, what next? Plenty of evidence he has his sights further west. Wherever ethnic Russians live will be next.

It’s 1938 all over again.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think the best option is that someone from within Russia take him out, posthumously blames the thousands of Russian soldiers dead, declared he tricked conscripts into signing up, then blames the poor tactics on Putin.. then they could probably recall the special military operation... However, the ICC has opened an investigation and my guess will want to try a lot of top military and not so topp military brass.. That may make the task a little more difficult, except Russia won't hand them over...Still an exKGB'er stiffing Putin like that may not be thinkable...

 

Sadly, the geopolitical situation is not great at the moment, which is probably given Putin the window he wanted.

[Jerry_Atrick]

BTW, UK is sending more advanced anti-aircraft missiles that can see in the dark, apparently...

 

 

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

BTW, UK is sending more advanced anti-aircraft missiles that can see in the dark, apparently...

 

 

Powered by carrots, like "Cat's eyes" Cunningham.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193429/How-carrots-helped-RAF-hero-nicknamed-cats-eyes-German-bomber-firing-single-shot.html

[Bruce Tuncks]

Gosh I hope you are wrong Nomad, but I do see your argument.

A possible reason to applaud the fight of the Ukrainians though is to see a similarity between this place and China and Taiwan. If Russia finds it easy, then the Chinese will be encouraged.

But yes, they are having a harder time right now by resisting.

[willedoo]

It's brought Ukrainians together like nothing before. The morale and the will to resist seems to be strong. Kharkov is a good example. It has a huge number of Russian speakers there who are getting the carp bombed out of them by the Russians. Any affinity there is now gone forever. Many of them have relatives in Russia and a common theme is that attempts at contact to tell their Russian relatives what is really happening are being met with disbelief. Most of the comments I've seen say that their relatives think Putin is doing the right thing getting rid of the Nazis. Just goes to show how the propaganda is working on the Russian side of the border.

 

I like this quote from a lady in Kharkov (translated), "And I will tell you that a country with a coat of arms in the form of a chicken will never be able to defeat a country with a coat of arms in the form of a fork!". Well said, but it's typical of the defiant spirit in Kharkov at present. The community spirit is strong and everyone is pulling together to help out the most vulnerable and needy. The wealthy are buying food for the poor and shopkeepers are donating their goods and stock. They know they are on the right side and the invaders are not. Those with basements are housing as many people as they can manage.

 

I think Putin thought the invasion would further divide Ukrainians, but it's had the opposite effect in uniting them. As one said, the war has turned Ukraine from a people into a nation.

 

Facebook has been a critical tool for people to communicate during the crisis, and for doing things like arranging food and evacuation transport for the needy. Elon Musk has done his bit by providing as much Starlink internet access as he can. One problem with Facebook is their breach of rules policy. Ukrainians are getting temporary bans and restrictions on their posts if they've posted anything that resembles advocating violence toward the invaders. This make it difficult as they also need Facebook for coordinating other emergency community related things. One journalist I know of in Kharkov is getting around it by posting on friends accounts and asking them to repost them.

 

I just can't imagine the extent of bitterness and defiance people like him must feel. He's a Russian speaker and his grandfather was a Soviet general of aviation who fought in WW2 as a colonel commanding an air regiment. And now the Russians have come to his city and are killing people. So much for Putin's BS about protecting ethnic Russians. He's bombing them.

Edited March 11, 2022 by willedoo

[Yenn]

Why would China want any sort of war, they already have most of the world under their thumb by making themselves indispensable through trade. A war with Australia would leave them in control of a big dry country which could not afford to buy its goods. Easy supply chain for them, but little help in getting dollars.

[willedoo]

There's news reports today that the 64 kilometre long Russian convoy stalled for days on the highway outside Kiev has broken up and dispersed into nearby towns and forests. Doesn't look like that plan worked too well.