Space Stations: Past, Present, And Future

[willedoo]

Space junk and Earth junk can be viewed in different ways. In my State, if you throw an empty beer can on the ground, you could be fined for littering. If you came back after thirty years and picked it up, you can be fined for disturbing European cultural heritage. If people didn't leave stuff lying around, there would be no work for future archeologists.

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

Space junk and Earth junk can be viewed in different ways. In my State, if you throw an empty beer can on the ground, you could be fined for littering. If you came back after thirty years and picked it up, you can be fined for disturbing European cultural heritage. If people didn't leave stuff lying around, there would be no work for future archeologists.

As with many topics, Leunig has already been there:

[octave]

6 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

As with many topics, Leunig has already been there:

 

What a coincidence, I have just spent some time looking for this exact cartoon to post that I remember from many years ago. You  beat me to it.

[nomadpete]

Octave, I apologise for being so critical. I enjoy all your posts because they get me thinking. They inspire me to go researching, learning. The exploration of space has brought many beneficial developments for us earthbound humans. I am not critical of that. The very thought that a drone was developed that is capable of controlled flight in a near vacuum, boggles the mind. The logistics, skill and technology is amazing.

Whilst I was watching, though , my cynical tangent judgement kicked in, and the discarded chute and smashed casing reminded me of empty Maccas packets that litter our roadsides. It doesn't negate the amazing achievement that you posted in that clip.

Please don't take my comments personally. No offence was intended.

[octave]

its all good nomadpete, no offence taken 😀

[onetrack]

Well, if the Canadians can organise to extend the long arm of the Mounties to Indictable offences in Space and on the Moon, maybe they'll extend their littering laws to those far-off places, too!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-05/space-crime-moon-astronauts-canada-nasa/101042110

 

One of the things that gets me, is the space scientists are going to great ends, with search on a microscopic level, to prove that something resembling life (or its building blocks) exists on far-off planets - yet they've already polluted the Galaxies with DNA and particles of life forms that have originated from Earth - since 1957? 

I don't understand how they will now be able to separate any "new" discoveries of life forms on other planets, from the particles of life forms that have originated from Earth-based Space exploration?

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by onetrack

[octave]

9 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I don't understand how they will now be able to separate any "new" discoveries of life forms on other planets, from the particles of life forms that have originated from Earth-based Space exploration?

 

It is something that is taken very seriously Here's Why We Sterilize Spacecraft

 

We could of course never 100% sure however what do we do never go into space?    It is interesting to contemplate that it is conceivable that if there was ever life on Mars it could have contributed to life on earth via meteorites that originated from Mars.    The problem with old satellites and other detritus in Earth orbit is a very real problem that is being thought about and acted on.  There are now deorbit guidelines and plans to reduce these objects.   As far as bits and pieces left on the Moon Venus, Mars etc.  in terms   negative consequences I cant quite understand why  6 lunar module decent stages are such a big deal.   

 

Personally I am thrilled by the prospect of what the Webb space telescope is about to discover. 

 

Any thing we humans do has a cost and a benefit.   The migration of the earliest humans from Africa to Asia and Europe no doubt came with costs and benefits.   Seeds plants and animals would have been transported to areas that they were not native to.

 

It is interesting to read comments on the net about the latest pictures from Mars.   Some folk express outrage about leaving objects on other planets who probably don't put much effort into sorting their recycling or care about the pollution to our atmosphere that they contribute to.    The notion that scientists and engineers don't give a toss and this is certainly not true. 

 

The parachute etc. on Mars was a necessary component of land a probe on Mars, it was not laziness or stupidity.        The alternative is not to send anything into space. 

 

I found this article quite interesting, it illustrates that the scientists are aware and concerned  and do go to quite a lot of trouble to reduce the odds that they may discover life and not know whether it came from Earth or Mars.   https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210510-could-the-perseverance-rover-have-carried-life-to-mars

 

I don't think we should cease exploration.  We should of course take great care of other planets and of course most importantly we should take care of this planet.  

 

 

 

[onetrack]

Space junk is posing a huge problem, and it is only going to get much worse - not just in the low-Earth orbit zone, but in the whole of Space, and including other close planets, now.

 

A 4 tonne chunk of a Long March rocket remnant crashed into the Moon just a couple of months back - yet the Chinese completely denied the junk was theirs.

 

They just don't care about their Space junk - at least the Americans are trying to do something, because they're concerned that the Kessler Effect will become a reality, and stop Space exploration, and even prevent the launch and use of low-Earth orbit satellites.

 

https://www.slashgear.com/787971/expert-reveals-what-the-space-junk-crash-will-do-to-the-moon-today/

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by onetrack

[willedoo]

The new head of Roscosmos has announced Russia's plans to exit the ISS in 2024. It will be interesting to see what adaptations have to be made if the Americans want to stay until 2031 like they were planning. I think the Russian section has the engines used to geo-position the station, and a fair bit of the life support system.

[facthunter]

Can Russia find the money? Many doubt it.  has Putler flipped his lid? Nev

[octave]

I think NASAs plan for the remaining years of ISS involves partnerships with private companies such as Axiom Space.  I suspect that NASA has a renewed interest in deep space rather than low earth orbit.  By the way Artemis 1 is schedule for an unscrewed trip around the moon with the first possible launch date being  in late August or early September.

 

As for the Russians, who knows? 

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, octave said:

…As for the Russians, who knows? 

Presumably they plan to chuck in their lot with China, which is building their own space station.

[octave]

I have read that there is some speculation that this may be a negotiating tactic try to ease western sanctions. I have no idea whether this is likely or not.  The Russians have lost a big source of funds since the US (and other countries) no longer solely rely Soyuz for a ride on to ISS(about 90 million a seat).   NASA and Rocosmos I believe have just signed an agreement for cosmanouts to travel on Crew Dragon in return for astronauts flying on Soyuz. 

[willedoo]

In today's news, one of the top Roscosmos officials has given a different story, saying they will stay until their own space station, ROSS, is built, probably by 2028. He made the point that if they stop manned flight for a few years, it will be hard to restart. It makes sense; it would be easier to keep a programme ticking along than to try and bring it out of mothballs at a later date.

[octave]

34 minutes ago, willedoo said:

In today's news, one of the top Roscosmos officials has given a different story, saying they will stay until their own space station, ROSS, is built, probably by 2028. He made the point that if they stop manned flight for a few years, it will be hard to restart. It makes sense; it would be easier to keep a programme ticking along than to try and bring it out of mothballs at a later date.

 

That makes sense.  Looking at all the reports stating 2024 I notice d the wording is "after 2024"      

 

"The decision to leave the station after 2024 has been made," the current head of Roscosmos, Yuri Borisov, according to the Associated Press."

 

[facthunter]

The Ruskies make the propulsion  (and Manouvering) section of the thing. . Hardest to replace?? Nev

[willedoo]

The current agreement between the U.S. and Russia is only signed until 2024. They are both committed until that date, which is why 2024 is mentioned so much. Any involvement past then is by further agreement. The U.S. originally were the first to talk about pulling out, but they've long since made the decision to stay until around 2030 if possible. A fair while ago, the Russians started talking about possibly not going past their present commitments. A lot of it was due to the cost of trying to keep their ageing systems going. There's been varying estimates as to how much more life some systems have. Held together by duct tape maybe.

 

They started talking about the possibility of going in with the Chinese, but these days seem to be set on building ROSS. 2026 was set for the first space mission to start construction.

[octave]

I believe Axiom Space ( a private company) is planning to launch a segment in 2024 Axiom Orbital Segment   followed by other segments.  In 2027 they plan to launch a power segment which will mean it can become autonomous and the old section cut loose and deorbited.  It does make a lot of sense to build off the aging ISS rather than to start from scratch. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by octave

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, octave said:

I believe Axiom Space ( a private company) is planning to launch a segment in 2024 Axiom Orbital Segment   followed by other segments.  In 2027 they plan to launch a power segment which will mean it can become autonomous and the old section cut loose and deorbited.  It does make a lot of sense to build off the aging ISS rather than to start from scratch. 

There’s been a lot of talk about manufacturing in microgravity. The ISS has some serious power resources. Given the massive cost of getting it into orbit (not to mention the environmental impact of burning thousands of tonnes of toxic fuel) why dump all that high-tech material into the Pacific Graveyard?

I’d love to see it boosted into a more stable orbit, where it can be canibalised for parts or raw materials.

[facthunter]

Everywhere we go we leave CRAP . Why would space be any different? It costs to do things right and profit is king. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I've said it before I know, but I wish we would congratulate and reward any country which does something good in space. That means the Russians and Chinese too.

In a small way, I reckon it would help maintain the peace but the main reason is that it is the right thing to do.

Space is so big that the differences between us all get into better proportions. There is a picture of the earth as a pale blue dot, taken by the Voyager from outside the solar system.

Who would have believed that the passengers on that pale blue dot had their main occupation of fighting each other.

[onetrack]

Now we're getting some of that multitude of crap launched into space without a care, landing back on the blue planet in solid chunks. This problem can only get worse.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/space-junk-found-in-nsw-snowy-mountains-paddocks-/101277542

[spacesailor]

Has any one tried ' putting a magnetic  rubbish collector ' into orbit. 

Might not be as insane as it sounds . 

The more it collects the larger it becomes,  to make retreval easier. Than sighting a " micro partical " .

spacesailor

[willedoo]

11 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Has any one tried ' putting a magnetic  rubbish collector ' into orbit. 

Might not be as insane as it sounds . 

The more it collects the larger it becomes,  to make retreval easier. Than sighting a " micro partical " .

spacesailor

There might not be much metal that would be attracted to a magnet. A lot of aluminium and titanium, although there would probably be titanium/iron alloys as well.

[Old Koreelah]

Lots of non-metal used in spacecraft, from bamboo to carbon fibre.