willedoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Australia LEAD the world with thermal. Only something went "Wrong"I know not what !. Drilling down into the Earth's hot Rock interior. (Moomba Perhaps ) Then Nothing. spacesailor The hot rocks project at Innaminka shut down in August 2016, as it wasn't economically viable to produce the power in the middle of nowhere. I think they got it working though. When I last worked out that way in 2011, they were still battling away, but they must have lost a lot of money. Early in the piece they had trouble with the well, lost circulation or something, so they had to start all over again and drill a new well. Not sure what it costs to drill the well that deep, probably at least 20 mil. I think they were hoping to sell power to the oil and gas companies like Santos, Beach etc., but they would have also got caught up in the oil price slump. Around that time Santos was struggling to survive, so the last thing they would spent money on would be overpriced power. It would be a big infrastructure cost to run the power to Moomba from Innaminka. A lot cheaper for Santos to run diesel generators on their own crude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Australia is way too stupid to innovate with nuclear power stations, but what will we do when the Chinese have lots of cheap and safe power stations but still have fewer carbon emissions?... On current trends, Bruce, we'll have most of our buildings covered in solar panels, there will be neighbourhood battery banks and e-cars integrated into the whole system. Our carbon emissions will be plummeting towards levels not seen since our great-great grandparents' days and our economy will have weaned itself off exporting coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 That would be nice old K. All we humans need is to solve global warming, resource depletion and overpopulation while we spend the resources needed on the military. We have maybe 10 years to do that. On the SA geothermal story... I lost money investing in the SA hot rocks, and what happened was that their stainless steel bore casings rusted out too quickly and this made the project non-viable. Under certain chemical circumstances, stainless steel can rust out just as fast as anything. What a shame huh... natural energy, always available, which could be turned on and off real fast and complement the wind and solar. A good investment huh. Actually, it is the radioactivity of granite rocks which is the true source of the energy, but the greenies would never know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Can you explain to me just how having a few (non Nuclear) submarines that everybody knows where they are and who puts them together achieves? We have only 5 weeks of liquid fuels here. and told not to worry about that.!!!. Bruce, Nuclear adds heat to the equation and is REALLY hard to clean up and COSTLY. can't be wound up and down that easily and needs the GRID unless you use little ones all over the place. Solar is landing here anyhow and It's a very safe nuclear source being 93 million miles away and is going to last far longer than we can imagine or conceive seeing humanoids have only been around for about 300 thousand years. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 That would be nice old K. All we humans need is to solve global warming, resource depletion and overpopulation while we spend the resources needed on the military. We have maybe 10 years to do that... I totally agree, Bruce; time is running out. We're all in the same leaky boat, ...On the SA geothermal story...Actually, it is the radioactivity of granite rocks which is the true source of the energy, but the greenies would never know that. Bruce that's a disappointingly ignorant comment. I have been promoting "hot rocks" for decades and I'm sorry you lost money in the venture. I agree many "greenies" are not the sharpest tools in the workshop, but I'd suggest there is far more education and intelligence among green voters than those who support the extreme right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Nuclear is a non starter economically. No government has ever had one built without giving the private company a indemnity on insurance and backing the loan. That means the taxpayer is stuck with any bills from a accident, has to pay for decommissioning and also stump up for any loans made to build it even though it is for private ownership and profit. Also have to pay a guaranteed price that keeps going up for the power over the life of the plant. Not even the Lnp are that stupid, almost but not quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Our government has just realised that the taxpayer is stuck with the clean up of closed down coal mines now. That just came out yesterday on the news. They are just coming to realise what any thinking person has known for years. Bu they still want Adani to go ahead. A mine that will cost the government billions and will never make a profit in Australia, so no taxes paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Question ? How good would solar be in. Manchester & Liverpool UK, Plus lots more town's that have FEW sunny day's to work those panels. Cotton mills were put there because of the high humidity, dry cotton breaks too easily, to get through the process of changing HAIR to thread, & Linen. Another NEAR miss !. Asteroids HAVE & WILL hit Earth. Plus the moon. A nuclear winter will have a disastrous effect on Air quality & usable sunlight. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Question ?How good would solar be in. Manchester & Liverpool UK, Plus lots more town's that have FEW sunny day's to work those panels.... I dunno Spacey, but people are still installing them. At that latitude, wind, wave, tidal and other renewables are promising. ...Another NEAR miss !. Asteroids HAVE & WILL hit Earth. Plus the moon.A nuclear winter will have a disastrous effect on Air quality & usable sunlight. spacesailor All true. Who knows what will happen? Greenland ice is melting so fast it could disrupt the Gulf Stream, plunging Western Europe into a massive winter. One or more big volcanoes could spew out enough ash to reverse recent global warming. We can't do much about those events. All we can do is prepare for what ARE certain of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 How good would solar be in. Manchester & Liverpool UK, Plus lots more town's that have FEW sunny day's to work those panels. Solar power in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia "The UK's annual insolation is in the range of 750–1,100 kilowatt-hours per square metre (kWh/m²). London receives 0.52 and 4.74 kWh/m² per day in December and July, respectively.[20] While the sunniest parts of the UK receive much less solar radiation than the sunniest parts of Europe, the country's insolation in the south is comparable with that of central European countries, including Germany, which generates about 7% of its electricity from solar power.[21] Additionally, the UK's higher wind speeds cool PV modules, leading to higher efficiencies than could be expected at these levels of insolation.[22]" Also Solar power for new, blue CIS tower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Nuclear power has moved on from the dark ages. They don't have to produce dangerous stuff anymore. Do some research on the latest stuff. But I agree Australia will not be the first country to do anything. As for greenies, it is accepted that they are not all scientifically ignorant, but their official policies sure are. Their policy on open door immigration makes no sense to me at all for several reasons. I reckon they are typical of the generation which takes food for granted to such an extent that they feel free to attack farmers at every opportunity. And I know a green-voting woman who is proud of her natural granite benchtop, and I don't have the meanness in me to tell her that granite makes a geiger-counter click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Old K, I have tried to think of a bore-casing that will take the heat and pressure and not corrode out..PVC is way to soft at high temperatures. What a shame, all that energy there and no way to get at it. It is better than a nuclear power station in that it can be turned on and off quickly. It would be great if a solution, like applying a cathodic protection current, were to be found. I don't regret investing in them, the idea just had to be explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 John Howard reckons the GREENS are the real enemies of progress. and Honest Johnnie is just a terrific bloke you should all listen to if you want a reason to suicide. If this comment concerns/ depresses you, contact lifeline or beyond blue on the usual numbers. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On the SA geothermal story... I lost money investing in the SA hot rocks, and what happened was that their stainless steel bore casings rusted out too quickly and this made the project non-viable. Under certain chemical circumstances, stainless steel can rust out just as fast as anything. What a shame huh... natural energy, always available, which could be turned on and off real fast and complement the wind and solar. A good investment huh. Actually, it is the radioactivity of granite rocks which is the true source of the energy, but the greenies would never know that. Bruce, I used to drive past the site regularly but don't know a great deal about it. I would have thought that even without the technical problems it would have been unviable do to the remoteness. It's a long way from any markets. What they need is hot rocks somewhere near a decent population base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Grid access would be important to the commercial viability of any generator. However, the cost can be arranged if there is a will. For instance, the Queensland government arranged for extension of the national grid all the way to Roma at a cost (I believe) in the region of 2 billion dollars over two years. Just so the coal seam gas can be pumped out to ships. Shame that no government saw fit to offer to stump up the cash to connect from the ideal location of the hot rocks project. Also sad that CSIRO weren't able to add their respected research capabilities to finding a solution to the bore casing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 You have to hand it to them though, sticking it out for eight or nine years before pulling the pin. Not sure what the total cost was; I read somewhere dated 2012 that they'd spent 700 million at that stage. As an edit to a post of mine last night - after I mentioned Moomba using diesel generators powered by crude, I realized they have gas powered turbines. They fuel some vehicles with crude, or at least they did when I last worked out there seven years ago. A year ago Santos was starting a heat recovery project where they recover and recycle waste heat from their turbines. It's recycled back to the turbines so they output more electricity and steam with the same amount of gas input. The hope is that it will free up more gas to sell, as well as lower emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Yes, they did give their geothermal project a good go. Gotta admire that . Also admire all those who put up hard cash to fund it. Its a pity that we don't have government nor big investor will to progress the concept to completion. Any new method of doing things requires expensive 'proof of concept' work. They achieved that. No doubt the materials problems that they found, can be solved in due course. I live in hope that someone, somewhere (in Australia) can leverage the powers that be, to make geothermal power a reality. The biggest hurdle is the up front capital cost, since running costs should be low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 The science and technical side of it seems to work. The Paralana project near the Beverley uranium mine closed in 2014 due to lack of capital. They secured $24.5 million as a Renewable Energy Development Program grant but couldn't raise another $5 million needed. A bit sad really, as the technical side of it worked. I worked there briefly in 2011 building an earth tank for them, when it was just a capped well and a couple of dongas. Surprised me that it closed because of a lack of $5 million. The geothermal company was partnered with Beach; I would have thought Beach could have come up with that funding to make it work. But I suppose it coincided with the big oil price crash and Beach were probably struggling as much as Santos at that time. Right place, wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I believe the best hot rocks site is around Birdsville-far from consumers- but a reasonably good site is right under Liddell Power station. Turbines, generators, transmission gear all ready to connect to a cleaner source of hot water... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Conspiety thery, This and all governments don't want you to know "When the End is Nie". They say "it's to stop panic". But now we know it's Soley to stop you pulling all your money out of the banks, to have the last fling. Empty banks after the .event, leaves a Big hole in any suviving government's ability to rebuild. Not all government's Own banks. But the rich Bank owner's own governments. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I don't think my "spell checker" is working ?. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I like your spelling space. It has character and anyway the idea of only one correct way to spell was invented by a guy who just wanted people to buy his new-fangled dictionary. On banks: The funny thing about our banks is how they mainly started out as government owned and then got sold off. I remember liking Keating until he sold the Commonwealth bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Spell checker is for correcting inadvertent typo's. If you can't spell a word, don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 People who use incorrect spelling are using a different language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 wot 'e zed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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