Is it worth reporting on politics?

[octave]

But how do argue against those who say that NASA itself is part of a conspiracy to lie about non-existent global warming?

Honestly, I would not bother arguing with someone who held those beliefs just like I don't argue with anti vaxers or moon landing conspiracists. Such a conspiracy would be of immense proportions. It is not just NASA it would be a conspiracy between just about every scientific body and stretching back many years

 

But if I did: I guess I would start by pointing out that this is not a new fad, scientists have been aware for quite some time

 

1859

 

Tyndall demonstrates that some gases block infrared radiation, and notes that changes in the concentration of the gases could bring climate change. =>Other gases

 

1879

 

International Meteorological Organization begins to compile and standardize global weather data, including temperature. =>International

 

1896

 

Arrhenius publishes first calculation of global warming from human emissions of CO2.=>Simple models

 

1897

 

Chamberlin produces a model for global carbon exchange including feedbacks. =>Simple models

 

Global Warming Timeline

 

To put forward to the idea that NASA is lying about non-existent warming can be proved or disproved by measuring average temperatures. Temperatures are measured via satellite as well as on land by many organisations as well as private individuals. Many farmers now understand that the climate is changing. We know that the average ocean temperature is increasing as well as it's chemical composition. The ocean absorbs much of the carbon that we are producing but its ability to do this is not infinite. I think the fact the earth is warming is not in doubt and easily provable.

 

But perhaps it is just a natural cycle the denier now says. The cycles of the sun are well understood and predictable. We do know and have known since the mid-1800s that the composition of the atmosphere is one of the things that determine how much solar radiation is absorbed. We know that whilst Mercury is closer to the sun Venus has higher surface temperatures. This is simple physics.

 

What if it is not true? Well, then we have fast-tracked new technology. The fossil fuel age will end eventually one way or the other. We know that there is no shortage of energy, enough sunlight falls on the earth to power the planet many times over, it is always windy somewhere, the movement of water (tides) has enormous energy to be harnessed, dig a hole deep enough and you can turn water into steam. We can split the atom to produce power, we eventually will be able to fuse atoms in a way that can generate power. We can use intermittent wind and solar to generate hydrogen cleanly. These technologies are at various levels of development, some will prove viable and others may not. Wright brothers to Apollo 11 - 66 years

 

If we actually are able to release carbon created over millions of years in a mere 200 years without any ill effects to the earth I would still argue that we need coal and oil for things other than burning, we need the raw materials for plastics chemicals, drugs etc.

 

But as to the conspiracy theorists, I usually ask them to explain to me how this is organised? How many individuals from all around the world would have to be in on it? Where are the whistleblowers? What is the goal of the conspiracists?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The biggest threat to Australia is the near-certainty that during this century hundreds of millions of people will be displaced by climate change. Where will they go?

 

Australia is globally known as a safe, prosperous destination and the world already realises this country is per capita, among the worst greenhouse polluters... and our government is digging us deeper into the coal hole.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Octave.

 

Re: conspirity :Only have to look at G4 get-together. Have YOU seen any report as to the proceeding's, from their closed to the public door !.

 

The ten wealthiest people make the rules for 75 % of the population.

 

Getting answers from ANY mp is nie impossible.

 

More often than not THEY LIE.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Octave.Re: conspirity :Only have to look at G4 get-together. Have YOU seen any report as to the proceeding's, from their closed to the public door !.

 

The ten wealthiest people make the rules for 75 % of the population.

 

Getting answers from ANY mp is nie impossible.

 

More often than not THEY LIE.

 

spacesailor

 

The scientific evidence is readily available through many sources worldwide

 

Getting answers from ANY mp is nie impossible.

Exactly what data or measurements do you not have access to?

 

Do you believe the conspiracy has been handed down through the generations from the mid-1800s?

 

Which part do you believe to be untrue, by which I mean do you question whether or not burning fossil fuels releases co2?

 

Perhaps you don't believe that different gases have different thermal absorption properties?

 

Maybe you don't believe that the composition of the atmosphere has any bearing on the climate?

 

My understanding of this comes from a lifelong interest in science and plenty of reading from reliable sources. I am happy to argue the evidence but so far your only debating point is you are unable to find out what is going in G4. By the what has G4 got to do with climate change? G4 is Brazil, Germany India and Japan and whose reason for being is to support each other in bids for the security council. Perhaps you mean G7 whose focus is the economy.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I didn't read Spacey's post as disagreeing with climate change - more that the conspiracy has been promulgated by those wealthy few who have most to lose (well, they perceive the most to lose in the short term) by addressing climate change - I don't think it meant to dispute climate change per se..

 

@Old Koreelah - I was not giving up - far from it. In fact, I now take my electricity from a renewable only supplier (or at least they claim to be). I minimise my reliance on cars and take public transport, or, heaven forbid, walk when I can. Our holidays tend to be local affairs rather than taking kerosene burners great distances (obviously exceptions - hence the word, tend). We also try and source our food locally and organically where we don't grow (and no longer rear) our own. I live in a grade 2 listed house, so things like solar panels on teh roof are a no-no and there are two trees with preservation orders on them - and they unf. block out the light to swathes on the ground so ground-mounted solar panels are also a no-no. Wind is not reliable enough as a source of power for the house. I am now looking at ways of replacing our oil/kero burning heating - we don't have an aga thankfully - outdated, but beautiful waste of space. In fact, we are apparently members of some listed building association and I am getting involved to see if we can pressure the government to relax some of the restrictions in order to modernise them to be more sustainable while preserving the essence of their character..

 

Although, I still fly.. but occasionally.. Thinking of taking a warrior or similar to an airfield near Gallipoli for Anzac day in 2019... I know flying - esp the older designs is polluting, so I have to offset it somehow.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Don't be too hard on the old Aga; if they burn wood or similar, they'd be a pretty green option.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Don't be too hard on the old Aga; if they burn wood or similar, they'd be a pretty green option.

My previous one drank more heating oil than I drank red wine (worring about how to pay for the oil).. Oil prices always dropped after the winter when we turned it off

 

 

[spacesailor]

I don't disagree with "global warming " per sa,.

 

No-one seems to acknowledge the warming coming out from the Ice-age caused by that meteor strike some 40 million year's ago, I would like to see some scientific report on the earth's temperature Before that meteore calamity.

 

I suspect it's about what were getting now. Lush vegetation, great storms and every thing were still getting.

 

And it'e still peeesing down again !. With a little bit of hail, heaps of thunder.

 

I cleaned my gutter's & replaced one tile today, (to stop a drip from the kitchen window), Am I pleases with myself.

 

Don't mention open fire's, they stink & cause respiratory problems.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

If you are interested in the history of the earth's climate you may find this interesting, he does mention "impact winter"

 

 

[Bruce]

Space, global warming sure has happened before. It is a feature of the geological record.

 

The last times, global warming was caused by CO2 from volcanic stuff. This time, it is due to burning fossil carbon.

 

 

[Bruce]

I wrote that before watching the vid from Octave

 

 

[spacesailor]

And I've been saying it for years. LoL

 

Very glad I've got a suporter.

 

Way back in the 50ties Before that computer invention,

 

I read about that meteor strike North of America, with the burn vegetation mark going all the way south to Mexico,

 

I still can't understand, Gypsum (a rock?) being hurtled into the upper atmosphere & burning like a cinder fire, to cook all the large animals by infrared heat.

 

spaceailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I read about that meteor strike North of America, with the burn vegetation mark going all the way south to Mexico,..

Thanks for raising that subject, Spacey. Lots of evidence points to a major event about 12,000 years ago. That’s when most megafauna went extinct worldwide. As with the sudden extinction of dinosaurs (65mya) an impact crater has recently been discovered, in Greenland. The global apocalypse associated with it might also have wiped out any advanced human civilization- and there's plenty of evidence all over the world for that.

 

 

[spacesailor]

ATLANTIS

 

Alas, I fear, gone forever but linger's on in our minds.

 

My meteor strike was a little over 40 million years ago, hit a GYPSUM site & shot it up into the air, either Canada or Alaska.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

OUR OWN

 

Wolf Creek Crater, is 50 kmtr across, AND then this one puts all other's into insignificance :

 

"Scientists say underground 'scars' in central Australia mark the largest meteorite crater ever found. Scientists have discovered two deep scars in the earth's crust in outback Australia that are believed to mark the remains of a meteorite crater with a 250-mile diameter – the largest ever found.Mar 23, 2015 "

 

Not in my Ripley's believe it or not, Or the Guinness book of records.

 

It's a conspiracy.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

OUR OWNWolf Creek Crater, is 50 kmtr across, AND then this one puts all other's into insignificance :

 

"Scientists say underground 'scars' in central Australia mark the largest meteorite crater ever found. Scientists have discovered two deep scars in the earth's crust in outback Australia that are believed to mark the remains of a meteorite crater with a 250-mile diameter – the largest ever found.Mar 23, 2015 "

 

Not in my Ripley's believe it or not, Or the Guinness book of records.

 

It's a conspiracy.

 

spacesailor

spacesailor, Wolf Creek Crater is a small one, less than 1k in diameter. Still impressive to fly over though. It's got a lot of shape to it as they say it's only about 300,000 years old. Another one worth looking at is Gosses Bluff Crater, west of Alice. Supposed to be about 140 million years old. Looking at it, it's hard to get your head around that what you are seeing was once 1k beneath the original surface.

 

 

[octave]

List of impact craters on Earth - Wikipedia

[spacesailor]

I must have been very tired as it felt like I walked miles, going up the rim down & across, Under the Tree's in the centre.

 

"880 meters (2,890 feet) in diameter,"

 

There i a lot of craters around the Alice area !, must admit not seeing the Gosses Bluff Crater,

 

Looking at the map I must have driven right passed it. (perhaps not visible if not looking for it).Saw every-thing else around the area, (paid $7 toll for Hermannsburg rd.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

must admit not seeing the Gosses Bluff Crater, Looking at the map I must have driven right passed it. (perhaps not visible if not looking for it).Saw every-thing else around the area, (paid $7 toll for Hermannsburg rd.

 

spacesailor

As a crater, it's easy to miss if you're not looking for it. We drove past it assuming it was just another flat top rock formation. Several k's further on, there was a sign to a viewing area, so we drove up there and read the story board. That's the first I knew of it as a crater.

 

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[old man emu]

Wolf Creek Crater - Dreamtime story.

 

There are two Aboriginal stories about the formation of this crater. One says that it is the hole that a Rainbow Serpent came out from the ground before doing its thing.

 

The other is a story that, if one accepts that all myths have a kernel of truth, is that one day the crescent moon and the evening star passed very close to each other. The evening star became so hot that it fell to the ground, causing an enormous explosion and flash, followed by a dust cloud.

 

That, to me, is a good description of a meteor impact. Relating the second story to Wolf Creek may be an error as there is a meteorite impact field at Henbury, southwest of Alice Springs. This impact has been dated to about 4,500 years ago. This means that the impact was witnessed by Aborigines.

 

 

[Bruce]

Australia is way too stupid to innovate with nuclear power stations, but what will we do when the Chinese have lots of cheap and safe power stations but still have fewer carbon emissions? Will we all commit mass suicide or what?

 

Conventional power stations using molten salt for coolant will be safe and are not far from starting. Then hybrid fission/fusion will be next. During this time, Australia will be caught in the dark ages of Chernobyl fears etc and burning coal while the world fries.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Australia LEAD the world with thermal. Only something went "Wrong"

 

I know not what !.

 

Drilling down into the Earth's hot Rock interior. (Moomba Perhaps )

 

Then Nothing.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

Australia lead the world with SOLAR.

 

First Town solar powered in the World.

 

Lightning Ridge.

 

Check out their history.

 

What next in Australia, Who knows what lay's ahead.

 

IF you can foretell the future tell me next weeks Lotto numbers.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

On politics politics, I see Clive P is in strife again - going to be sued for plagiarizing "Karma Chameleon" for his game app. Palmer Chameleon.

 

 

[Marty_d]

On politics politics, I see Clive P is in strife again - going to be sued for plagiarizing "Karma Chameleon" for his game app. Palmer Chameleon.

Any publicity is good publicity. There'll be idiots out there that vote for him because they saw a cartoon version gobbling biscuits. If you believe a word that comes out of his mouth, I have a lovely bridge you may be interested in.