The climate change debate continues.

[nomadpete]

Although probably sarcastic, I think you do raise a good point, PM.

 

If all these important elders really believe their words and alleged concern, the meeting would  boycott the location of the largest fossil fuel suppliers (including Aus) and would be held online.

 

The best leadership leads by example.

Otherwise the world simply sees how cheap talk is.

Edited December 9, 2023 by nomadpete

[Jerry_Atrick]

FWIW, I think COP is a stooge play.. Lots of air that only warms the climate.  Whatzizname, the leader if Dubai (or the UAE, I am not sure) stated there was no scientific evidence of global warming... more more more acknowledged as a complete crock.

 

When I think of many so called origanisations for whatever the aim is, I can't help but think they are established precisely for the oppoosite of their stated aim. UN is more about disunited nations; COP shoudl have -OUT appended to its title;

 

The Pentagon has long been planning for threats as a result of climate change.. the very country that does little about changing it, but generates so much of it. The reality is, we're too thick to think beyonf the present, and the present means money, money, money.

 

 

[old man emu]

Azerbaijan will host next year’s UN climate summit, COP29. Azerbaijan is a petro-dollar country on the shores of the Caspain Sea. In other words, located further out that Bumfuck Nowhere.

 

The quest to find a host for Cop29 was fraught because of war. Under UN rules, it is Eastern Europe’s turn to take over the rotating presidency. But the group must unanimously decide which of the countries does the job. Russia had blocked EU countries from hosting, Azerbaijan and Armenia were blocking each other’s bids, and most of the rest of the group would struggle, onlookers thought, to stump up the money and facilities needed to host such a large conference.

 

Australia has a friendly bilateral relationship with Azerbaijan. Diplomatic relations were established in 1992. https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/azerbaijan/azerbaijan-country-brief

[nomadpete]

53 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

FWIW, I think COP is a stooge play.. Lots of air that only warms the climate.  Whatzizname, the leader if Dubai (or the UAE, I am not sure) stated there was no scientific evidence of global warming... more more more acknowledged as a complete crock.

 

When I think of many so called origanisations for whatever the aim is, I can't help but think they are established precisely for the oppoosite of their stated aim. UN is more about disunited nations; COP shoudl have -OUT appended to its title;

 

The Pentagon has long been planning for threats as a result of climate change.. the very country that does little about changing it, but generates so much of it. The reality is, we're too thick to think beyonf the present, and the present means money, money, money.

 

 

 

 

       Cynic!

[facthunter]

This last one, In Saudia, became EXPOSED due to some correspondence becoming public and was a scam. The next has to be better because it would be difficult for it to be worse...  Nev

[Litespeed]

15 hours ago, spacesailor said:

RENEWABLES 

Wood fired steam boilers of old ! , Before we found ' black rocks ' burn.

then we " Conserved " forests,  or what was left of them .

Now we chop down the " old growth " forests  for ' brown paper bags ! .

Conservation gone mad .

spacesailor

 

I have never seen a conservationist campaign to cut old growth forests for paper.

 

In fact they have campaigned for decades to stop it.

 

It's greedy forestry and paper companies assisted by state forestry cutting where it is banned. 

The courts protect the forest only to have it razed and no penalties worth a damn

 

[spacesailor]

German conservation groups are crying into their ' coffee ' .

Have you seen those thin ' brown paper ' bags . They wouldn't hold a ' chilled bottle ' of cheap booze without the bottom falling out .

Then the ' drinker's  Will be crying. 

Woe is me , not a drop to drink ! .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Can you translate that for me, space?   Nev

[spacesailor]

They ' outlawed ' " single use plastic bags " , but those , " single use Brown paper bags " will disintegrate as soon as the condensation off that " chilled bottle of beer "  .

Let's the bottle fall out of the end of that bag .

WE who are OLD,  have " been there & done that .

It's not a ' good ' feeling to have your shopping strewn  over the footpath  .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I'm trying to imagine how and WHY anyone would attempt to carry cold beer by the upper part of a Brown PAPER bag and how they'd managed to exist till the legal age of being able to buy it.  Nev

[octave]

9 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

They ' outlawed ' " single use plastic bags " , but those , " single use Brown paper bags " will disintegrate as soon as the condensation off that " chilled bottle of beer "  .

Let's the bottle fall out of the end of that bag .

WE who are OLD,  have " been there & done that .

It's not a ' good ' feeling to have your shopping strewn  over the footpath  .

spacesailor

 

 

My memory from when was growing up in the 70s was that our groceries were always carried in large paper bags.  If you are one of those who believes things were better in the past then I would have thought you would have of paper over modern plastic. 

 

Plastic has many downsides and it does not seem too onerous to me to at least attempt to reduce the amount of this stuff going into landfill.   

 

 

[old man emu]

Who buys single bottles of beer nowadays? 

[octave]

These are the bags I remember from my childhood.  Pretty similar to today but a little bigger and with no handles. 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Yet those same " single use plastic bags " , Are legal if printed  with"  reuse this bag " .

Great isn't it . Still that same " plastic bag " .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

You get trollies to take it all to your Car, space or even have it delivered. Lifes tough alright.. Nev

[spacesailor]

I love my " plastic bags " , those singe use PLASTIC bags can wrap a smelly item , that would contaminate yourfresh foods .

Then those nice new " brown paper " bags are thinner than those of Old .

spacesailor

 

[octave]

5 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Yet those same " single use plastic bags " , Are legal if printed  with"  reuse this bag " .

Great isn't it . Still that same " plastic bag " .

spacesailor

Space I have not looked up the laws in NSW but here in Victoria what you say is not correct. Printing "reuse this bag" is not a thing.

 

Which bags are banned? The ban applies to all lightweight plastic shopping bags with handles with a thickness of 35 microns or less at any part of the bag, including degradable, biodegradable and compostable bags. Retailers are not allowed to provide banned bags to customers, whether new or reused.

[spacesailor]

I love my " plastic bags " , those single use PLASTIC bags can wrap a smelly item , that would contaminate your fresh foods .

Then those nice new " brown paper " bags are thinner than those of Old .

My 'supermarket ' , removed only those small bags that you wrap individual items in .

Now they are printed " reuse this bag " .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

Be Nice and sterile after you used it for those SMELLY items and it had been in the boot of your car where you carried roadkill last week. IF not you, maybe someone else. Get the Picture?  Nev

[octave]

3 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I love my " plastic bags " , those single use PLASTIC bags can wrap a smelly item , that would contaminate your fresh foods .

Then those nice new " brown paper " bags are thinner than those of Old .

My 'supermarket ' , removed only those small bags that you wrap individual items in .

Now they are printed " reuse this bag " .

spacesailor

 

 

And you can use many types of plastic.  Here is the actual NSW law.

 

: Everything you need to know about NSW’s single-use plastic bans

 

Speccifcally these items are NOT banned.

 

3. What is not banned? A number of single-use plastic items are not captured by the NSW plastic bans.

 

3.1. Information about what is not banned The NSW Government is committed to reviewing the necessity of these items as sustainable alternatives become more available. Under the NSW Plastics Action Plan, the NSW Government has committed to review further items in 2024 to determine whether phasing out is appropriate at that time. We will commence work on this from next year.

 

3.2. From 1 June 2022 The ban on lightweight plastic bags does not apply to: • barrier bags such as bin liners, human or animal waste bags (such as nappy bags, bags for collecting food waste for FOGO systems, pet waste bags) • produce bags and deli bags • bags used to contain medical items (excluding bags provided by a retailer to a consumer used to transport medical items from the retailer).

 

3.3. From 1 November 2022 The ban on single-use plastic items does not apply to: • serving utensils such as salad servers or tongs • coffee cups • plastic cups • items that are an integrated part of the packaging used to seal or contain food or beverages, or are included within or attached to that packaging, through an automated process (such as a straw attached to a juice box) • single-use plastic bowls designed or intended to have a spill-proof lid, such as those used for a takeaway soup • expanded polystyrene (EPS) meat or produce trays • expanded polystyrene (EPS) packaging, including consumer and business-to-business packaging and transport containers • expanded polystyrene (EPS) items that are an integrated part of the packaging used to seal or contain food or beverages, or are including within or attached to that packaging, through an automated process (such as an EPS noodle cup)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Are those ' new ' Brown Paper Bags . Single use , or do we keep them in the car boot with the

" road kill ! .

spacesailor

 

[octave]

I don't often need bags for my shopping  I do I keep a couple of paper shopping bags in the car. and they are fine to reuse several times depending on what you have previously used them for.

 

 

[onetrack]

Spaceys post about letting your bottle of hooch fall out of a bag reminds me of the joke about the old Scotsman and his Whiskey.

 

He bought a bottle of Whiskey, walked across the road, stumbled on the kerb, and fell flat on his bum. As he struggled to get up, he felt something trickling down his leg.

 

He put his hand on the liquid, drew it away, and looked at his hand. Then he exclaimed, "Thank the good Lord! It's only blood!!" 

[red750]

Spacey, I think some supeermarkets still sell cloth grocery bags. Yes you might have to pay a couple of dollars, but that's no doubt less than a broken bottle of hooch. You can use them over and over. You just have to remember to take them with you. We have three or four. I also have a blue one with the logo of the community health service that runs our Men's Shed. I use it to take my lunch, my portable hard drive, sometimes my laptop, my reading glasses (in a case), a banana or other fruit to the Shed each day I attend. They can be washed if something spills in them. I think if you have the Woolies one and they tear or the handle breaks, they will replace it free of charge. At least they used to. You can carry half a dozen in one of those.

 

 

 

[old man emu]

Going by the number of exemptions listed above, it would seem that the single use plastic bag is only a minor contributor to the waste from plastic packaging.

 

What about the vacuformed packaging on things like hardware.? I bought a slide bolt for the door of the Cistern Chapel and had to cut my way through a sheet of acetate to free it. Then the packaging went into the bin for possible recycling.