Do NASA's observations rebut the Greens rhetoric?

[Bruce]

Most native deaths were the result of germs brought in by the colonists.

 

There is a great book " Guns Germs and Steel" explaining how it happened. An example being how when whites arrived at the mississipi, instead of meeting a chiefdom which could have fielded an army of thousands , they found some shattered survivors of a smallpox epidemic.

 

A similar thing on a much smaller scale happened in Australia. Nobody knows what the aboriginal population would have been without the germs.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The problem is, which 10% of the worlds population gets selected to remain. I would fight to the death if someone were to come and try and take myself or my family/friends from that select group.. Oh! Wait! Problem solved.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The first white fellas to explore the 'Bidgee were surprised they encountered so few people living in that rich riverine environment. Decades before, an influenza epidemic had spread west from Sydney and decimated the Wiradjuri and other nations. Our ancestors, mostly inadvertently, so weakened the previous occupants of the land with disease, that their occupation of the land was relatively unopposed.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Sturt at Wentworth found a thriving village with long houses (like islander houses) living on yabbies and fish where the three rivers met. Next expedition found nothing, not even trace of the houses. Death and fire within a few years.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Interesting, PM. I didn't know that.

 

Early cedar cutters on the Clarence reported semi-permanent houses at least 100' long, near where Grafton now sits. An old Bandjalung songman once told me that hundreds of people would gather there in the rainy summer season for ceremony and feasting, then disperse upcountry for the winter.

 

 

[old man emu]

We are looking at the introduction of European diseases to Aboriginals as though it was a deliberate case of biological warfare. It wasn't. Don't forget that those early European immigrants had as much knowledge of the microbial causes of disease as did the Aborigines. I'm sure that if we were time-traveled back to Sydney Cove in 1819, we'd be retching within a few minutes as we mixed with the Great Unwashed. It wasn't until the work of Pasteur in the 1850's that the germ theory of disease took over from the ancient miasma theory that disease was caused by "bad air" arising from rotting material. Vaccination for Small Pox was carried out in England from around the time of the First Fleet, but it is unlikely that the Lower Classes would have had access to it, or were convinced of its value.

 

The Aborigines had their own pharmacopoeia using naturally occurring plant-based chemicals. 40,000+ years of isolation didn't let them experience diseases like tuberculosis, Small Pox (and other minor poxes) and the STDs. It wasn't until 1980 that Small Pox was said to have been eradicated, but I bet it still lurks somewhere. In Australia we had a program to eradicate tuberculosis. There are around 1200 to 1300 cases of tuberculosis each year, which means we are among the lowest-risk countries in the world. People who were born and grew up in Australia are very unlikely to get TB, unless they have close contact with a sick person. The low humidity and heat of our climate help kill off the TB germ in the environment. The people most at risk of TB in Australia are those who have spent their early years of life in countries with high rates of the disease. The arrival of immigrants from those countries is the reason we can't eradicate the disease here.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

We have a giant snake near us that is made of granite stones and runs over a hill. It is about 300m long and has a head of stone. Researchers here believe it was built to appease a god at the time of smallpox around 1820-30.

 

 

[coljones]

We are looking at the introduction of European diseases to Aboriginals as though it was a deliberate case of biological warfare. It wasn't. Don't forget that those early European immigrants had as much knowledge of the microbial causes of disease as did the Aborigines. I'm sure that if we were time-traveled back to Sydney Cove in 1819, we'd be retching within a few minutes as we mixed with the Great Unwashed. It wasn't until the work of Pasteur in the 1850's that the germ theory of disease took over from the ancient miasma theory that disease was caused by "bad air" arising from rotting material. Vaccination for Small Pox was carried out in England from around the time of the First Fleet, but it is unlikely that the Lower Classes would have had access to it, or were convinced of its value.

The Aborigines had their own pharmacopoeia using naturally occurring plant-based chemicals. 40,000+ years of isolation didn't let them experience diseases like tuberculosis, Small Pox (and other minor poxes) and the STDs. It wasn't until 1980 that Small Pox was said to have been eradicated, but I bet it still lurks somewhere. In Australia we had a program to eradicate tuberculosis. There are around 1200 to 1300 cases of tuberculosis each year, which means we are among the lowest-risk countries in the world. People who were born and grew up in Australia are very unlikely to get TB, unless they have close contact with a sick person. The low humidity and heat of our climate help kill off the TB germ in the environment. The people most at risk of TB in Australia are those who have spent their early years of life in countries with high rates of the disease. The arrival of immigrants from those countries is the reason we can't eradicate the disease here.

The Aboriginal pharmacopoeia didn't have preventatives against gunshot wounds, poison, grog or refined sugar and flour either.

 

 

[old man emu]

At least the Aborigines didn't suffer from any acute sense of Cultural Superiority.

 

 

[facthunter]

Between tribes they did. They have strict rules about marriage not all based on not marrying a relative.Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

They prized drinkable water as well and take branches from trees not the whole tree. It's a totally different value system.. I didn't particularly mention whiteys but the industrial revolution was of such magnitude and effect the period subsequent is notable for the rapidity of change of climate related factors..The population explosion has to be relevant too whether we face up to it or not,.It can't just continue, Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

" but the industrial revolution was of such magnitude and effect the period subsequent is notable for the rapidity of change of climate related factors..

 

The population explosion has to be relevant too whether we face up to it or not, It can't just continue, Nev"

 

That Date is being touted as the time our Diets changed & we started the big decline in our gut Microbes.

 

Now we have to find a cure similar to "Poor infusion" to replace those missing microbes.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

What a day. A bloke from my neck of the woods makes me ashamed and thousands of kids make me proud.

 

One banner at the school kids' strike said: "I'm missing a maths test for this!"

 

 

[Marty_d]

Meanwhile all the conservative politicians can say is "stay in class!"

 

As one poster said... "But you gave me a day off for a horse race!"

 

I'm damn proud of today's kids. Good on them.

 

 

[willedoo]

There's a lot to be proud of; good on them. As one of them said, what's the use of school when the planet's wrecked.

 

 

[facthunter]

The silly LNP can't even realise these kids will be voting soon. Perhaps they will change that if they stay in power. ONLY business's (of the larger kind) owners can vote as they are the "Lifters". I'm sure that would appeal to many,. like smokin JOE Hockey. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Marty thinks the aboriginals "cared " for the land. I reckon that they just didn't know how to exploit it better.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Guess there's 2 possibilities why a culture would remain fairly stable for tens of thousands of years. Yes, one could be that they couldn't figure out ways to exploit the land more, another might be that they didn't change because they didn't want or need to.

 

Not being Aboriginal, or knowing any well enough to have this sort of conversation, I don't know which.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Guess there's 2 possibilities why a culture would remain fairly stable for tens of thousands of years...

Perhaps the survivors of a global cataclysm brought on by human folly might choose to renounce technology and live simply, within the capacity of their local environment.

 

There is plenty of evidence of a supercivilization in the very distant past, before the Younger-Dryas event.

 

All over the world are inexplicable relics and massive stone monuments that even today we could not build. Most cultures build their cities close to the coast, but abrupt rises in sea level drowned most evidence for these civilizations. I've long held the belief that much will be discovered in the shallow waters off the coast of our continent.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRw5Hg7-3w

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypotheses

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes If you go to any ocean you will eventually get to the bottom of it, but you might have to think more deeply than usual.. Complex civilisations aren't resistant to changes. (like those in Egypt's past). WE are running out of water. (that you can drink). Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

F H

 

Yes they ( the secret society) have poisoned our drinking water, to get rid of the Aluminum waste.

 

Fluoride

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

O K

 

His / Their time line seems a long way out, as the big meteor strike in North America, was 40 to 6o, Million years ago.

 

They are talking of Prehistory at only Thousands of years ago.

 

If we could go back in time, What was the topography, PRE "Gondwanaland".

 

I suspect the Massive Meteor (that caused the Earth to liquefy) Didn't hit Earth but our twin planet, One third went out to space, One third fell on Earth (became Gondwanaland), And the final third Is the Moon.

 

Sounds good to me, & no history buffs to Prove it wrong,(Hopefully)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I believe there is agreement about an event 11600 years ago but they are not sure what it was. Caused the Younger Dryas just before Gobleki Tepi was built. It is all new information from research in the last decade or two.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Space, its not a contradiction in time. The crater on Greenland is a different one from the one you are thinking of. There have been numerous relatively big meteor hits and the big ones seem to coincide with sudden dramatic climate changes, sea level changes, mass extinctions, etc.

 

The one in Greenland is estimated to have been about a kilometre across an hit a layer of ice that is hundreds of metres thick. Must have sent up an impressive cloud of steam!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

O KHis / Their time line seems a long way out, as the big meteor strike in North America, was 40 to 6o, Million years ago.

 

They are talking of Prehistory at only Thousands of years ago...

As Nomadpete pointed out, our planet has been clobbered by lots of big chunks. One crater has been found in Greenland and it seems to be associated with sudden climate change and mass extinctions about 12,000 years ago. It might also have wiped out a highly advanced civilization.