Old Koreelah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I started this thread on the Rec Flying site because of the topic's relevance to passing aircraft, but it's drifted into the realm of politics and the environment. If they were economically sound, no-one would be flogging the coal horse... -except those corporations trying to protect their lucrative trade in dirty coal. Where are their viable power stations? If the technology was viable, we'd all have been doing ages ago. We were using renewables ages ago- until cheap fossil fuels took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Unfortunately, fossil fuels are the concentrated energy source that powers secondary industry. We could not grow and season enough timber to meet the annual demand for energy that we require. I continue to hold the view that it is the coal corporations who are supporting the "environmentalist" dogma that nuclear energy is the Devil's child. It also annoys me that Australia, with its abundance of exposure to solar energy, lags behind the rest of the world in its domestic application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Not all heavy industry has been dependent on fossil fuels. All around the world there are alumina refineries powered by hydro power. Solar power is limitless, clean and cheap, but Australia is a bit short on the vision required to capitalise on our great asset. Steelmaker teams with Ross Garnaut to run factories using renewable energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 This is what happens when all you have is the ABC.Yes change needs to happen, but lets do it properly. SA has completely ballsed it up, and we have a whole bunch of people wanting to follow them... Not from the ABC: SA’s Tesla battery responds to coal-fired plant failure A month in, Tesla's SA battery is surpassing expectations ...Nuclear would be perfect for us, but for some reason we listen to people with little understanding of reality and big on scaremongering and virtue signalling... Nuclear power stations take up to 15 years to get online. The technology is evolving and no doubt improving, but it's all foreign-owned. Australia would have to go even deeper into debt to go nuclear, then we'd have the waste issue... Solar farms are being installed now -as we speak- and at least some of it is Australian technology. Wind farms are being built now. (Much of the equipment might have been locally made, but turbine companies packed up and left Australia because of the Abbott government's anti-renewables policies.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I wouldn't really refer to it as the SA bandwagon, more like a worldwide bandwagon Battery storage power station - Wikipedia Installation examples 3.1Chino Battery Storage Project 3.2Golden Valley Electric – Fairbanks 3.3BYD in Hongkong 3.4Battery storage power station Schwerin 3.5Photovoltaic and hybrid power plant 3.6Hybrid Battery power plant Braderup 3.7Battery storage Dresden 3.8Battery storage Feldheim 3.9Evonik battery storage 3.10Grand Ridge Power plant in Illinois and Beech Ridge, West Virginia, USA 3.11400 MWh Southern California Edison project 3.1252 MWh project on Kauai, Hawaii 3.13250 MWh Indonesia 3.14Battery Storage Notrees, Texas, 36 MW 3.15Battery storage with 13 MWh in Germany with worn batteries 3.1653 MWh in Ontario 3.17Storage in southern England with special control 3.18South Korea 3.19Storage for Aboriginal community in Australia 3.20Storage for Azores island of Graciosa 3.2180 MWh of storage in California 3.22300 MWh storage in Japan 3.23129 MWh storage in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 That's an impressive list. Odd how I didn't get to hear it on the evening news. Neither commercial news nor ABC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 That's an impressive list. Odd how I didn't get to hear it on the evening news. Neither commercial news nor ABC. - but a cricket ball was tampered with; much more newsworthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.” The Romans knew how to manipulate the crowd. (Substitute money and sport). morality doesn't come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Australia is a bit short on the vision required to capitalise on our great asset. Our greatest asset - "sunlit plains extended" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Were to put nuclear waste.! Down the obsolete coal mines. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Were to put nuclear waste.!Down the obsolete coal mines. spacesailor I love your logic! Seriously though, most are a bit close to populated areas and aquifers. Ideally, nuclear waste should be stored deep in geologically (and politically) stable rock. Australia has some ideal locations. Better still, don't produce it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Might not be a good idea to bury nuclear waste in our coal mines..... Most of our coal mines are open cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I wonder how much radioactive material would leach into aquifers if the material was placed in the old underground coal mines around Sydney. I bet that there has never been a study to find out how much change to background radioactivity comes you get if you bury radioactive waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 I wonder how much radioactive material would leach into aquifers if the material was placed in the old underground coal mines around Sydney. I bet that there has never been a study to find out how much change to background radioactivity comes you get if you bury radioactive waste. An experiment few would want to try; if a serious leak were discovered, how would you clean the waste out of the aquifer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 The "NEW" SA gov't said they will sell the Tesla Batteries. Holy Coaly. It's working and it's a Labor idea. Gotta go. Eliminate all trace before it catches on. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Consider how much radioactive material radiologists put into you when they do some of their examinations - very little. I would imagine that to test for seepage into aquifers, not more than a few hundred grams in solution would be required. Also, I'm sure that one of the first examinations of a potential dump site would be of the geology to ensure that there was a layer of capping between the dump and any aquifer system. I think that an examination such as this would rule out any location west of the Dividing Range. One would also have to test for the natural radioactive background level. I wonder how much radioactive material is in the natural water systems that flow out of the regions of Australia where uranium ore is found. Uranium mining in Australia - Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I wonder how much radioactive material would leach into aquifers if the material was placed in the old underground coal mines around Sydney. I bet that there has never been a study to find out how much change to background radioactivity comes you get if you bury radioactive waste. The problem around Sydney Newcastle and Wollongong is not waste leaching out but water pouring into underground mines through cracks in the river and lake beds. Thirlmere Lakes SW of Sydney have almost disappeared and have ended up in a coal mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 The "NEW" SA gov't said they will sell the Tesla Batteries. Holy Coaly. It's working and it's a Labor idea. Gotta go. Eliminate all trace before it catches on. Nev I sure hope that report is incorrect, Nev. Perhaps they want their big business mates to reap the massive profits when the batteries provide power during snap shortages. The Liberals have an idealogical aversion to governments owning anything. I believe you Mexicans got the opposite of cheaper, more reliable power when Kennet privatised the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 True, OK. The highest domestic electricity prices (per kWh) is evident in the States with the highest privatisation of power assets. If the Tesla power battery makes a profit, expect it to be sold to overseas interests asap. And electricity prices there to rise in order to pay dividends to the new owners. Queensland has the lowest privatisation of power assets, and the lowest cost per kWh to the public. Yet it has the biggest HV grid. How can it be that a government owned major asset can provide cheaper service than a privatised one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 True, OK.The highest domestic electricity prices (per kWh) is evident in the States with the highest privatisation of power assets. If the Tesla power battery makes a profit, expect it to be sold to overseas interests asap. And electricity prices there to rise in order to pay dividends to the new owners. Queensland has the lowest privatisation of power assets, and the lowest cost per kWh to the public. Yet it has the biggest HV grid. How can it be that a government owned major asset can provide cheaper service than a privatised one? ...because they don't have to reap a profit from providing an essential service to the public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 They don't pay their exces $24 million, or bank executive $53 million? Spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 We need a whole new reward system for our political and business leaders; not based on temporary distortion of share prices or sales figures. They need to be rewarded for making long-term, sustainable improvements to the business or jurisdiction they administer. Long after they have left, modern computers could easily assess the effectiveness of their decisions and allocate regular payments- just like musicians and actors get regular royalties when their artwork is accessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 America's latest wars are a distraction. The real reason we should be adopting the cautionary principle and cutting greenhouse emissions. Gulf Stream current at its weakest in 1,600 years, studies show The Lucky Country can expect boat people in unstoppable numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 How can a business show a Good profit for it's shareholders when the C E O reaps all that profit into their pocket. My father used to take $1,000 out of the "till" as his allowance, when profits were down his worker's were let go to save that wage, Good job he had my brother to fill the missing worker gap, I wouldn't work for nothing even for the old man!. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 From other site- That largely, those whinging the loudest are the most hypocritical? Who is whinging? Perhaps those who oppose phasing out burning fossil fuel are whinging about the phenomenal success of the renewable sector. Hypocritical? We all use the old technology, because that's what's available. Perhaps the difference is that some of us have invested heavily in transitioning our lifestyle to cleaner energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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