eBike Crackdown

[red750]

Following a spike in accidents and deaths, Queensland is putting new laws before parliament to crackdown on the use of ebikes.

 

Faster, more powerful e-bikes — anything over 25km/h — will now be treated like motorbikes or mopeds, meaning they can only be ridden on the road and must be registered and insured.

 

On footpaths, riders will have to slow right down to 10km/h, and a new offence will make it illegal to ride near pedestrians without proper care.

 

There’s also a broader push behind the scenes, with plans to tighten rules on retailers, crack down on tampering, improve lithium battery disposal, and roll out education campaigns to try and get on top of the growing issue.

 

Parents could also be held responsible, with fines able to be passed on if their child breaks the rules.

 

Police are being given stronger powers too, including random breath testing, and the ability to seize and impound illegal devices on the spot, with repeat or serious cases potentially seeing bikes destroyed.

 

There’s also a broader push behind the scenes, with plans to tighten rules on retailers, crack down on tampering, improve lithium battery disposal, and roll out education campaigns to try and get on top of the growing issue.

 

E-wheelchair users will be exempted from these rules.

Transport Minister Brent Mickelberg branded the suite of changes "nation-leading reforms".

"We are banning under-16s from these devices because the safety of kids is paramount," he said.

 
"We've taken the time to get this right, and our reforms strike the right balance between keeping Queenslanders safe from those who do the wrong thing, while backing the Queenslanders who do the right thing."

 

 

[facthunter]

Typical Of Benito's "over the top" response but some appropriate  action is Needed..  Putting Kids in Bluestone College makes them Criminals for Life and costs the earth. Nev

[Siso]

Putting kids on e bikes on the road or footpaths puts people in hospital

[facthunter]

It gives people cheap Mobility. Pushbikes are dangerous and home made Planes, Powerful Motorcycles too. Lets ban the Lot and be even handed eh! But Guns, they ARE made to Kill People. They are allowed. Isn't it an ODD World? Nev..

[willedoo]

It's not before time, it's been getting out of control. One of the worst areas is my local town. It's the high school kids who are the worst offenders. The police have tried a crack down but it doesn't seem to have helped much. If you go to town you really have to keep a good eye out for them as it's quite scary when you're walking along the footpath and a gang of them roar past at 30kph only inches away. I can't say I blame the kids; it's a no-brainer what will happen if you give kids what is in effect an electric motorcycle and let them ride it anywhere they like. I saw a couple of kids outside the shopping centre the other day with those big ones that have tyres the size of a Harley front wheel. There's been people killed around here, mainly the kids colliding with each other.

[octave]

As a regular e-bike rider, I think there may be a case for sensible regulation.   There are many e-bikes that are very fast and powerful, and at this stage, not even legal.  I think there could be a use for these bikes, but we just have to work out a way of making them compatible with other traffic and pedestrians.  Micro transport has many benefits for a city.  The majority of bike riders, electric or not, are taking a vehicle off the road for that particular journey. When I ride to my local supermarket, which has limited parking, someone else can park in my car park. On a recent walk around Melbourne CBD, I noted how many delivery bikes were on the roads.  Each one of these is likely displacing a car or motorcycle. There can be friction between the different travellers, but we just need to work out sensible rules to coexist.  I regularly ride on Rail Trails, which are shared between bikes, walkers and sometimes horses; it seems to work well.

E-bikes are a relatively new technology. We need to sensibly work out how to use them and not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and we definitely don't want to turn it into a culture war.  

 

[willedoo]

I think some of them can get speeds up to 100kph with illegal chips, if the motor is big enough to do it.

Edited yesterday at 03:50 AM by willedoo

[octave]

4 minutes ago, willedoo said:

I think some of them can get speeds up to 100kph with illegal chips, if the motor is big enough to do it.

I think these bikes (which are illegal) could probably be made legal with adequate regs, more like a motorbike.  I believe at the moment 250watts is the limit for road use.  I think that a bike that does 100 kp is a motor vehicle and should be regulated as such.

Edited yesterday at 03:55 AM by octave

[willedoo]

That's the thing, they're sold legally with a motor capable of those speeds but by law have to have a speed limiter. It doesn't seem very hard for the kids to get their hands on a black market chip to override that limitation. If kids under 16 are totally banned from riding them in public it would negate a lot of that. I think back to when I was 13 or 14 and how great it would have been if your parents bought you something like that and let you loose with it. That's why I don't blame the kids fror the temptation; I would have done the same thing at their age, hotted it up to go as fast as possible.

[willedoo]

16 minutes ago, octave said:

I think these bikes (which are illegal) could probably be made legal with adequate regs, more like a motorbike. 

I think that's why they are restricting under 16's. Regulations are already there to stop them from modifying the speeds, but no amount of regulation stops it. It doesn't work proactively in the case of kids, so at the moment all the police can do is act reactively after the offence.

[octave]

It is interesting that mostly there are not loads of kids riding illegal motorbikes on the streets (although it does happen occasionally). I guess the thing with Ebikes is there is this slippery slope.  If I can ride a 250-watt bike, then why not a 300-watt bike, which can easily lead to 750watts and more.   I think these bigger bikes should be available, but on the same basis as a motorcycle, because that is what they are.  A young person on a fast Ebike must be dealt with in the same manner as a young person riding a motorbike.  Something that can travel at 100kph is a vehicle and should require a licence and rego.  I also think that safety standards for some of these powerful bikes should be enforced. 

[red750]

I recall a couple of months ago driving up a main suburban street at around 55kph, and a young bloke on an e-bike was keeping pace with me, riding up the footpath on the back wheel only. Some houses along there had hedges, and if an elderly person came out of a gateway, I hate to imagine the result.

[willedoo]

With this one, if you took the pedals off, you could call it an electric motorbike. A pedal E-Bike I think it's called.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Looks like the pedals are an add on to get around the law

[octave]

7 minutes ago, willedoo said:

With this one, if you took the pedals off, you could call it an electric motorbike. A pedal E-Bike I think it's called.

Yep, and should be registered as a motorbike and require a licence and insurance in my view.. The vast majority of Ebikes and riders are safe and legal.  I strongly support the law being applied.  There are ebikes out there where it is difficult to tell which side of the law they are on, but the one above is quite clear.   

 

[red750]

A related story.

 

https://7news.com.au/news/bossley-park-motorbike-crash-two-teenagers-killed-after-mayors-calls-for-bike-safety-at-infamous-intersection-in-sydneys-west--c-22037672

[facthunter]

Always a few Idiots to spoil things for the rest. Using the Pedals controls the amount of assistance up to the designed power  Limit AND speed limit I recall getting 31 MPH on the flat for a very brief time on a single speed ordinary Pushbike. I could have been booked for exceeding the Speed Limit.. I have no doubt that down some hills I would have been way above the Limit, especially with Gears. . Nev

[Marty_d]

Motorbikes are designed to travel at 100kph (or a lot more). Every component is a lot more heavy duty than something the size of a bicycle.

Then consider controllability with tiny handlebars, ineffective brakes and suspension.

I think banning something where you can't see the difference between a legal version and an illegal one would be very difficult to enforce.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Where you have untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured people able to operate vehicles that, for the most part, have the same capability as those which come under the road regulations, what should be done? Yes, motorcycles are capable of well over 100kpoh, but we are talking urban use where speed limits are between 30kph and 50kph for the norm. sometimes 60 and 80.. and on the freeways 100mph. 

 

 Force = Mass x Velocity.. Even an electric scooter and 16 year old hitting you at 60kph is going to hurt and as we have seen, can kill..

 

I am one that is against spoiling it for the rest because of an errant few, but this has the potential to get out of hand. You should see the issues in cities in the UK.

 

If a notty 15 year old bangs into the side of your car causing $1,000's of damage despite not injuring anyone, I hope you;re happy to pick up the bill..

 

More and more kids are getting these, and more and more are modding them, the laws of maths tells me this cannot be good without some form of restrictions. And in some cases, banning seems the most appropriate - much easiuer to enforce than checking each bike to see if it has been modded. 

[willedoo]

26 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I am one that is against spoiling it for the rest because of an errant few, but this has the potential to get out of hand.

Jerry, it already has got way out of hand where I live. It's not just 10 or 20 kids hooning around town, there's dozens of them all over town causing problems in the afternoon after school. It's bad in the whole district, but my local town gets singled out in the press as being the most troublesome standout area. I think it's to do with the geopraphy and layout of the town and where the school is sited. It makes it easy for the kids to roar around and not get caught. What's brought it to a head lately is the number of deaths and injuries to riders and pedestrians. The police don't have the resources to be chasing them all over town every afternoon, it's only a small local station.

[onetrack]

E-bikes and e-scooters are out of control, Australia-wide. Half the problem is the unlimited accessibility and ease of purchase of these things, the other half is no age restrictions and no training. And it's not just juveniles, either.

The number of young males in their 20's riding these things at high speed with no registration, onto footpaths, then onto roads, then cutting through traffic, then back onto footpaths, is large.

 

SWMBO and I were in Albany on the weekend. We filled up at an unattended (card only) servo, on the main road, Albany Hwy. We climbed back into the car and went to drive out the exit onto the highway - and a young bloke about 20 on an e-scooter, doing about 60kmh along the footpath, screamed past the front of the car, missing us by less than a metre.

 

I was only going slow and looking back up the highway to my right for approaching traffic (there was none), and I didn't even see this bloke on my right, he was going so fast, he had no hi-vis or lighting - and the last thing I expected was a vehicle doing 60kmh on the footpath. Plus, there was signage, posts and other obstructions in front of the servo, that helped conceal the e-scooter rider.

It's time laws were brought in restricting the sale of these things, a requirement for training and licencing (both bike and rider), and rigid enforcement of the rules. We've had idiots here just kill themselves, simply by falling off them at speed.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:27 PM by onetrack

[old man emu]

A metre further on and Onetrack would hav been up Shyte Creek if the bloke had hit him, no doubt causing serious injury o even death. The reason: Onetrack was crossing the footpath and "failed to give way to a pedestrian on the footpath". Here's a point. I know that it's an offence for an adult to ride a bike long a footpath, and Posties have to remain below 10 kph. However, I doubt if the Law has caught up to E-scooters to include them in that rule. There is (was?) an offence of 'Furious riding" which applied to bikes. Nevertheless, it is the primary duty of the driver of a motor vehicle to avoid collisions with persons, animals and objects. In the case of persons, it does not matter what contribution they might make to the collsion. Sucks, don't it?

[onetrack]

OME, I normally look for, and give way to pedestrians and pushbikes on footpaths. Here in W.A., it is legal to ride a pushbike, or an e-scooter on a footpath or shared walkway - provided speed limits are adhered to.

Those speed limits are 10kmh on footpaths and 15kmh on shared walkways. If I had sighted a pedestrian or a cyclist on the footpath, I would've stopped.

As I said, I was proceeding slowly and cautiously out of the servo. I could've easily stopped and given way to anyone on the footpath abiding by the rules and regulations.

As it was, this bloke was certainly guilty of "riding furiously". He wasn't just riding furiously, he was indulging in dangerous or reckless riding, on a par with using a motor vehicle in that manner.

He was not "driving defensively", which is where you drive to the conditions and allow room to stop if another driver does something wrong.

He was in the wrong - although I know today, that each driver or rider is allocated a share of responsibilty, in the event of a crash.

 

https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/active-transport/riding-walking-wheeling/safety-guidelines-faqs/rules

 

Edited 16 hours ago by onetrack

[pmccarthy]

Furious riding was a 19th century charge for horse riders. It lingered.

[old man emu]

20 minutes ago, onetrack said:

OME, I normally look for, and give way to pedestrians and pushbikes on footpath

I'm sure you do, and your initial post reflects that, but road rules are rules of"strict liability". A driver, virtually has no defence, except in the event of an unavoidable accident. Proving unavoidable accident is pretty hard. The final arbitor is the Criminal Court, so a driver has already been penalised by the act of ddefending the allegation. 

 

The only place that considers the actions of the other party is the Civil Court, and then it is only to decide how much responsibility each party has for teh incident. The Court would start by assigning at least 50% to the driver, and work from there.