Aussies and yanks in Vietnam.

[red750]

Like so many stories on Facebook, you get half (or less) of what looks like a good story, then it says "Continued in comments".  This usually means that there is a link in the first comment to the rest of the story, but often the link is missing, or links to an entirely different story. In this case, the link was missing. However, here is what was displayed.

 

Five American soldiers walked into the jungle alongside four Australians. 4 days later, the Americans walked out, changed men. Their afteraction report contained a single phrase that would echo through Mayv headquarters for months. We are not ready for this. Wait, not ready. These were Rangers from the 101st Airborne. 

 Men who had survived firefights that would break most soldiers. And yet, after 96 hours moving through Vietnamese jungle with Australian SAS operators, they filed a report that read, "Less like a military assessment and more like a confession of inadequacy." Oh, this story gets so much stranger than you think because what those American soldiers witnessed in those four days.

 The methods, the silence, the way those Australians moved through triple canopy jungle like they owned every shadow was so fundamentally different from everything they had been trained to believe about warfare that some of them requested never to patrol with the Aussies again. One lieutenant came back and told his commanding officer three words that got immediately classified. They're not human.

 You're about to discover why the most powerful military on Earth started sending its elite soldiers to learn from 120 men from a country most Americans knew only for kangaroos and beer. And trust me, by the end of this video, you'll understand why the Vietkong stopped referring to them as soldiers at all.

 They called them something else. Maang, the jungle ghosts. Stay with me. Natrang, September 1966. The May TV Recondo School had just opened its doors to train American long- range reconnaissance patrol personnel in the dark arts of jungle warfare. The facility sprawled across a compound near the massive naval air base, its training schedule designed to push soldiers to the absolute limits of endurance and skill.

 three weeks, 260 hours of classroom and field instruction culminating in an actual combat patrol through enemy controlled territory. The school's commonant, Major AJ Baker, had assembled what he believed to be the finest reconnaissance instructors in the American military. Green Berets who had run operations from the demilitarized zone to the Meong Delta.

 Veterans of Project Delta, men who had earned their reputations tracking communist forces through some of the most hostile terrain in Southeast Asia. But Baker knew something that troubled him deeply, something he would not speak about publicly, but that kept him awake on humid Vietnamese nights. His instructors, skilled as they were, were teaching methods developed for a different kind of war.

 And there was one group operating in country who had already solved the puzzle that American forces were still trying to figure out. The Australians had arrived in Puaktoy province in April of 1966 with a mandate that differed fundamentally from American doctrine. While US forces measured success in body counts and territory seized, the Australians had been given a single objective.

 Pacify the province using whatever methods necessary. The key phrase was whatever methods. Within the Australian task force operated a unit so small it barely registered on American organizational charts. The Special Air Service Regiment. three squadrons rotating through Vietnam, never more than 120 men in country at any given time.

 Their official designation was reconnaissance. Their actual function was something far more primal, something that would force American military doctrine to confront uncomfortable truths about the nature of jungle warfare. The first American personnel to observe Australian SAS operations did so almost by accident. In May of 1967, a squad of US Longrange Reconnaissance Patrol soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division had been attached to one squadron SAS for what was supposed to be a routine exchange program.

 The Americans arrived at Nuiidat, the Australian base, expecting to find familiar patterns. Professional soldiers conducting professional operations with perhaps a few tactical variations that came from operating in a different area of operations. What they found instead would fundamentally challenge everything they understood about warfare in Vietnam.

 Sergeant Michael Patterson had served two tours in Vietnam before his assignment to the Australian Exchange Program. He had run patrols through the Iron Triangle, conducted search and destroy operations in the Central Highlands, and survived firefights that had earned him two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. He was not, by any measure, a novice to jungle combat.

 His first morning at New Dat Patterson watched an Australian SAS patrol prepare for insertion. Five men, each carrying approximately 80 lb of equipment. M16 rifles with modified flash suppressors. Enough ammunition to simulate the firepower of a force three times their size. Rations for 5 days. No air support pre-positioned. No artillery fire plan.

No quick reaction force on standby, just five men who would walk into enemy controlled territory and not make contact with base for 72 hours. What struck Patterson immediately was the silence. American patrols buzzed with lastminute activity before insertion. Radio checks, weapons checks, final coordination with helicopter crews.

 

ooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo

 

This is where the link should have been. Some of the replies, apparently from American members, commented on how great the Special Forces soldiers were and how undertrained they made the Yanks look. Unfortunately when you leave a Facebook page to do something like create this post, then go back for more, the screen refreshes and you lose it. There were a couple of replies I would like to have copied.

 

 

[willedoo]

I remember a few years ago listening to an ex SAS bloke on Conversations with Richard Fidler. He'd written a book about his experiences. One thing that stuck in my mind was his description of the long term physical injuries that he ended up with (in his case mainly back issues) doing what they had to do. One thing was carrying heavy pack loads, but he also described the physical strain of ambush and/or observation exercises where thay had to sit in the one spot and not move for many hours or days on end. Movement is the main give-away on a stakeout so he said it could take 15 minutes or more to have a drink of water. A lot of time spent very slowly signalling others to take over his arc of responsibility, then virtually a millimeter at a time going through the motions.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Facebook would have moderators and censors. Somethings might be just a little too sensitive for the public to learn about.

[red750]

They let so much garbage through it's unbelievable. Reports of famous people dying while they are still alive, ruthless takedowns of famous actors like Robert Redford, Cary Grant, Dick Van Dyke having sex with 99 men, others raping dozens of women, etc.

 

I have complained many times through the feedback page but nothing is done. Lots of story links blocked by my antivirus. So don't expect Facebook (Meta) to check and correct things.

[rgmwa]

There's plenty of videos on uTube in the same vein as that article, generally saying how the Australian SAS soldiers far outclassed the elite American troops in the jungle. I'm not sure how much is true and how much is hype.  Here's a typical one.

 

 

[onetrack]

The Yanks sent a group of their soldiers to Jungle Training Centre, Canungra, so they could go through the Jungle warfare course that all Aussie soldiers had to pass, before being sent overseas to combat zones.

None of them could complete it. They packed it in and went home.

 

It was a bastard of a course, all designed to get Aussie soldiers used to real jungle warfare conditions. The worst part was slithering through deep mud on your back to get under a huge mat of barbed wired, with barely enough room to slide under it - all the while you were under live fire (just above your head, of course) and enduring constant but irregular detonations of explosives, just to simulate mines and artillery shells and grenades going off.

 

Then you had to scramble up obstructions to reach the top of a 10 metre tower - then jump off the tower into a river that was about 50 metres wide - which you had to cross, of course.

There was a rope dangling in the river which you could use to help yourself. Naturally, you also had to be carrying a fully-equipped backpack containing around 15 kgs, and your rifle - which you had to try and keep dry.

 

After you made it to the other side, there was slippery, muddy, mountainous terrain to climb - and I mean it was that steep, you were on your hands and knees. Then there was the M60 machine gun that also had to be carried up that mountain.

When one bloke peaked out with carrying the M60, someone else had to take it. After you made to the plateau at the top, you had to make camp for the night - wet or not.

 

Of course, you had to post sentries al night, because this was the Jungle, and enemy were always probing your defences. So sleep was pretty patchy. 

Next day you had to walk a jungle trail with an F1 SMG - and shoot at targets that suddenly and unexpectedly popped up each side of the trail. These were enemy soldiers, taking potshots at you.

You had  to set up enemy ambushes, hide yourself completely - then endure many hours of waiting and waiting and waiting, for enemy to appear. In the hot sun, in the rain, in the cold. There was no respite, you dare not move.

The enemy always appeared after a very long wait of course - and when you least expected them. If you messed up the ambush, you got to do it again.

 

The obstacle courses were endless and made you exert yourself to the max. Climbing over huge walls, jumping through courses laid with tyres - all in mud of course. Scrambling up 10 metre ropes to cross other obstacles.

I can only remember a few of them, possibly because my memory doesn't want to recall the rest. They were all designed to make you exert yourself to your limits. And you always carried your rifle with you, at all times.

 

The course took 10 days out of your life, and at the end of it you were pretty buggered - but if you passed the course, you got your ticket to go to a real war zone, which was often far more different again to Canungra.

 

American soldiers could never go anywhere in a group without making a lot of noise, giving off a lot of smells (cannabis and aftershave and scented soaps), and they were so trigger-happy, they were dangerous to be around.

The SAS took especial pains to ensure they gave off no smell, never followed any kind of track or trail, were silent to an unbelievable level (hand signals were refined to the nth degree), and they often followed enemy and determined their likely path - then moved ahead of them, and waited silently and in hiding, for the enemy to pass.

 

Then they'd step out behind the last of the enemy and dispatch them with as little sound as possible - then drag their body off the trail.

The enemy would be totally unnerved at how their "tail end Charlies" could just vanish without a sound or a trace. It was psychological war at its finest.

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:25 PM by onetrack

[old man emu]

8 hours ago, rgmwa said:

There's plenty of videos on uTube in the same vein as that article, generally saying how the Australian SAS soldiers far outclassed the elite American troops in the jungle. I'm not sure how much is true and how much is hype.  Here's a typical one.

 

 

There has been a great number of these videos on YouTube. You can tell that they are created using AI. As I read Red's original post, I could hear that same AI-generated voice saying the commentary. Those videos are mass-produced simply as clickbait. Each click earns the creator a cent or two, and as they say, pennies make pounds. I suppose the saving grace of these videos is that they hold Australian troops in high esteem. As factual documentaries, I doubt that they are more good yarns than facts.

[facthunter]

We are always the GOODIES in our own Minds.  No Occupying Army is ever friends with the Locals for long. Nev

[Marty_d]

I've just got back to Australia after visiting Vietnam, sitting in Sydney airport waiting for the Hobart flight.

They call it the American war over there.

I don't know why we went, or what the Yanks thought they'd achieve.

Every Vietnamese person I talked to (apart from the hucksters trying to sell you stuff) was polite, friendly and with a great sense of humour.

An interesting fact is that they burn cardboard shaped into shoes, clothes etc for their dead ancestors. They even burn fake money so the spirits can buy stuff in the afterlife.

Now this next bit shows how lovely these people are.

The fake money they burn is obviously Vietnamese dong. They then started worrying about the American and European dead in their country, not recognising the currency and going without.

So now they also burn fake US dollars and Euros as well, so the foreign spirits are looked after. (Probably the more entrepreneurial Vietnamese spirits also grab the foreign currency because of the exchange rate!)

But just think - regardless of how nonsensical the whole thing may be, they are concerned about the welfare of the dead soldiers who invaded their country.

 

[pmccarthy]

I spent the morning with an ex-SAS mate working on my truck. He has a crook back from jumping out of choppers. I have a crook back from too long sitting at a desk!

[facthunter]

MOST  People have a crook back if they are old enough. Desks rarely crash and burn.  Nev

[red750]

A bit off topic but this is the rubbish Facebook continues to publish.

 

 

 

And this

 

https://ms2.xyno.online/43561?site=tier1

 

[facthunter]

HOOK AYRES?   Nev

[nomadpete]

Not about Viet Nam, but still relevant.

 

Back in 2000, I encountered a civvie who was working in the Australian Army compound in Dili (East Timor). He mentioned the following:-

 

The Australians regularly patrolled the border (No, it wasn't Viet type thick jungle). They were concerned by Indos following and taking pot shots to harrass. I believe no casualties, just harrassment. So one day, the SAS followed a safe distance behind our patrol. The problem was removed. SAS still knew how to be invisible. The problem never reocurred. The incident was never reported.

Aside from Youtoob BS, there are believable reports by American vets, to support those Vietnam stories. Mainly they highlight the arrogance & poor training of the US military.

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by nomadpete

[red750]

More BS rubbish from Facebook

 

[Marty_d]

One of the reasons I don't do Facebook.

It's a steaming pile. If I want news I go to ABC and the Guardian.

[facthunter]

 How about SKY?  Nothing they say is correct.  How can they get away with it? nev

Edited 8 hours ago by facthunter
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[Siso]

Similar to the ABC, but we all pay for that one

[onetrack]

Re the Australian SAS and the American soldiers in Vietnam, this documentary (link below) is quite good, and pretty accurate.

 

A lot of the war and military scenes are irrelevant, repetitive and often unrelated - but the narration is accurate.

I'm not sure the Americans have learn anything since Vietnam, their arrogance and gung-ho attitude still persists.

 

Even Gen Westmoreland was quoted as saying, "If you want to see how it's done, go to Phuoc Tuy province and see how the Australians do it".

 

The American military was totally obsessed with one thing - enemy kill numbers.

They prioritised that over anything else, this attitude simply led to American soldier lying about kills and simply throwing more and more heavy weaponry into any battle with the enemy.

 

The VC and NVA knew this and specialised in hit and run ambushes on American troops that were very effective.

Kill a good handful of Americans in the first 30 seconds, then withdraw rapidly before the Americans could even determine where the enemy were - and the VC and NVA were well away before the U.S. gunships and artillery arrived to fill the entire region with lead and explosive armaments - and half the time killing more American troops than the numbers of VC or NVA that attacked them.

 

Many Australian SAS members had serious reservations about working with U.S. soldiers, simply because it was well known the Americans stood as high a chance of killing you, as the VC or NVA did.

 

The technique of gathering up and studying every piece of enemy information that could be obtained, was reinforced by an Australian Army Engineer, Capt Sandy McGregor.

 

McGregor was OC of our Engineer Squadron while I was in Vietnam - 17 Construction Sqdn. He was formerly OC of 1st Field Squadron, where he developed the Tunnel Rats teams - Engineer Sappers that went down into VC and NVA tunnels and bunkers, armed only with a torch and a pistol, to determine tunnel layouts and size - and especially, to try and capture enemy documentation and equipment.

 

It took real guts to be a Tunnel Rat, and they had to cope with hidden booby traps in tunnels and bunkers (even poisonous snakes and scorpions), coming across enemy, and being flooded and drowned by VC/NVA traps.

But the intelligence gathered by Tunnel Rats, especially documents and equipment, was utterly invaluable to Australian Intelligence. The Americans would just bomb or destroy bunkers and tunnels with explosives, and gain no enemy information.

 

In one intelligence-gathering raid, the Australian Engineers captured a large list of NVA soldiers names, and top VC operational commanders names - but the list was ignored, and filed away by the Americans.

 

 

[old man emu]

Let's be fair about the ABC. It is the only broadcasting organisation that actually produces Australian worthwhile (actual theatrically worthwhile) content for television. In fact, it only seems to be the news and current affairs department that shows bias. 

[Siso]

Don't get me wrong, I don't rate Sky either.

[Marty_d]

If the ABC said anything that could be construed by the rabid right as even slightly left of centre, regardless of how factual it is, they get hounded by the Murdoch press and face political pressure.

There is no comparison with Sky.

If you think that the ABC is reporting factually incorrect news, provide examples.

[Siso]

I can't think of anything really, the reason power prices have risen isn't because of renewables is one. The way they treat the various politicians is another thing that really ikes me. Like I said, I don't rate Sky either. The ABC aren't as bad as Sky, but sky aren't government funded either.

[facthunter]

The ABC have to give equal time etc and get scrutinised More than anybody else. "Insiders" is a waste of time.  ABC Covers emergencies way better than anyone Else.  The."Others" are against the ABC constantly, of course. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

5 hours ago, Siso said:

I can't think of anything really, the reason power prices have risen isn't because of renewables is one.

Not only do you admit, but you show it with what you think is fake news from the ABC. If renewables are the reason for price rises, why is NSW, SA, and SE QLD getting free electricity because of solar?

 

The reason for electricity price rises globally is the massive increase in gas price increases due to peak in demand of electricity post pandemic, severe supply chain issues, and the Russian invasion. I still don't know why, but that drove up coal prices, and guess what? John Howrards criminally short sighted policies of selling gas to the Chinese at even then knock-down prices and hold them for god knows how long at that price without indexation (must have been a very big brown paper bag involved somewhere) and successive governments allowing coal being liberalised to be traded on the open global market wthout reserving necessary supply domestically at cost of extraction plus decent profit margin (admittedly, when the price of coal is down, that would work against the consumer - but at least there would be certainty of what you have to pay), and - voilla! There you have your increasing electricity prices..

 

As with any new technology, there is a short term capital investment recovery built into the price, but in a fully competitive or well regulated market where structural impediments of entry and exit exist (take your pick), once that is recovered, the prices tend to stabilise near the cost of production + a margin for ongoing returns. We are starting to see it in solar. Renewables are cheaper longer term than any other form of generation. Remeber the price of colour TVs when they came out. More expesnive in absolute terms than you can buy them now. Imagine the real cost difference?

 

Yeah, ABC don't get it right all the time and they do sometimes show bias, especially on one issue - in my opinion. But I have found when you dig into the facts, more often than not, they are far closer to objectivity than the others, willing to admit they make mistakes better than the others, and even on the area I think they are biased, they are no more so than most of the others (whether it fits my agenda or doesn't).

Edited 29 minutes ago by Jerry_Atrick