old man emu Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Both the Australian Army and Air Force used the 500 cc (30.5 cubic inches) Model 741 Indian Scout during WWII. The problem with them was that they were under-powered. The WLA Harley had a 750 cc (45 cubic inches) engine. As a rider of a WLA, I see that 741 as being a lesser bike to ride because: The foot clutch operation of the Indian is "heel down" to engage. This is opposite to the "toe down" of the WLA, which makes clutch control better. The gear selector lever of the Indian sticks out from the side of the bike, and does not have a gate. The WLA gear selector is short and operates through a gate on the left hand side of the tank. The throttle control on the Indian is on the left hand side. On the WLA it is in the right hand side, which seems more natural. The seat of the Indian has two coil springs attached between the rear of the seat pan and the frame. This would allow the seat to feel unstable. The WLA has a spring post which goes through the rear frame bracket, so the seat is attached solidly front and rear, and the spring tension can be adjusted for weight of rider. The Indian does not have a trip meter. The WLA has a trip meter which I use as a guide to fuel content. The front fork suspension only has a single spring. The WLA has a spring system for each fork. The Indian engine produced 15 HP against the WLA's 25 HP Both bikes were geared for a maximum top speed of 65 mph. There's no question that the Indian was a much lighter bike than the WLA, by about 50 kg empty weight. It would have been a good for transportation around fixed bases like air fields and administration facilities, but the heavier, more powerful, more rugged WLA was better suited to the battlefield. Would I take a 741 if someone offered it to me? My fur coat I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Throttle on the left, I knew I could remember something odd about it. The WLA was a much nicer ride. I remember the Indian as being a bit agricultural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 You should find a few 741s around south-east Queensland. Up around Townsville, the Yanks left them laying about. In NSW and Victoria they were issued from Holsworthy and Wagga bases. A lot were over in WA. The Australian Army was using them into the middle 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 They have a heavy frame but a good one. The motor is too gutless standard and 1/8 th inch over bore is nearly too much. The cylinders break off., They are generally stroked also, using 750 Harley wheels and rods but end up not having enough fins to keep the engine cool. A rush to race them has just about finished them off here in Australia. There were never many in the US. They were exported..You would be better of to stick to the 1938 750 Sport Scout. Hard to find a good one. Better balanced design. You get used to the clutch action either way. The Indian can have the gear lever either side, but it needs to be opposite to the throttle, which on the Indian was standard on the left.. Apart from the early models Indian didn't use a gear gate. You get used to not having one or having one.if you ride the particular bike enough. You can make gear changes surprisingly well and quickly on a hand change when you ride them a lot. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I seem to recall that the throttle on the left side design was so that the rider could use the right hand for using a handgun. This was, I think, a carry over from pre-war days when Indians were commonly used by police departments. The Harley gear selection system (using a lever in a gate) has a neater appearance and doesn't leave a metal rod sitting out in the breeze. The later model Servi-cars, which consist of all the motorcycle parts forward of the rear vertical frame member attached to an A-frame rear chassis, were often used by police departments for parking enforcement. These models had the gear selector gate on the right hand side and the throttle on the left handlebar. No wonder the cylinders gave up the ghost.) 0.125 oversize is massive. The standard maximum overbore size for a WL 45" is 0.090. When people ask me how hard it is to change gears with a foot clutch/hand change arrangement, I tell them that if they can drive a manual car, then it's the same. It's all in managing clutch engagement. What I hate is "motorcycle experts" saying "Oh! it's got a suicide shifter". There's no chance falling off while using either the Indian or Harley gear changing system. On both makes, the clutch is held in the disengaged position due to its over-center geometry plus a helper spring (aka "sissy spring"), so the rider could place both feet on the ground when stopped. These standard clutches are called a "rocker clutch". I have no trouble at all when stopped at traffic lights to have the bike in 1st gear, clutch disengaged and both feet on the ground. (Great for stretching the legs) Hill starts are a breeze because I can control the rate at which the clutch plates engage. One of my projects is transcribing all the Australian Army Indian and Harley ID numbers to a database so that owners can see if their bike was ever in the Services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 That overbore is common and takes the 500 straight to 600 cc and uses the (once) easy to get 600 cc pistons. It ruins the cylinders The early Scouts were 600 cc till the 740 cc option was introduced in 1927 in the popular Scout model 101.. The Early Chiefs (20 on)were 1000 cc till the 1200 ccc option was introduced in 1923.. I don't know the last year of the 1000 cc Chief. Probably mid 20's the Scout and Chief through the 30 s was 750 and 1200 till the 80 inch stroked Blackhawk in the 50's... The ungated gearchange is quite close to the tank on the Indians and is more up and down in action than the Harleys which are quite fore and aft. The earlier Hedstrom till 1915 in the US and Powerplus (1916 till 1924) models had a gate gearchange except for the 2 speed models which were on the top of the tank using a positive location spring loaded pin to hold them in gear as they had no other means of keeping it in gear. That's back when most of the UK and other bikes ran a vee belt to drive the back wheel. Indian Pioneered the roller and the block type chains on their bikes. That was one of the reasons for their success at Brooklands in 1912 . At that time they were the world's largest producers of motorcycles and had a big dealer in London.(Billy Wells) operating against a very heavy import duty.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Yes, Classic rego has a few rules that are easy to follow and still use your steed. Join a few mates and start a classic bike and or car club. Rules are simple and you can still do some extended journeys without needing the club along for every ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Club rego gives hope to lots of us. I hope to resurrect my old Guzzi before the rodents chew out the wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 resurrect ! [ATTACH]50057._xfImport[/ATTACH] spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Club rego gives hope to lots of us. I hope to resurrect my old Guzzi before the rodents chew out the wiring. I have a intensive care ward waiting for your Guzzi. I can guarantee quality care and much throttle abuse. All Guzzi's get free lifetime care at my retirement home and include visitations for the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I have a intensive care ward waiting for your Guzzi. I can guarantee quality care and much throttle abuse. All Guzzi's get free lifetime care at my retirement home and include visitations for the owner. Does this mean you are a Guzzi surgeon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Like all proper bike men, I am a Guzziologist. All types of cycle medicine, but I prefer to work on those with big jugs sticking out proudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 You mean Proper Motorcycles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 If you are suffering a shortage of Guzzis to perform surgery on, my wife's V-50 is in need of some attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 but I prefer to work on those with big jugs sticking out proudly. Don't we all, but I think this is a motorbike thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 One day, when I think you blokes are old enough to handle it, I'll post a pic of my Lario. I'd just bought her, and smitten as I was, pushed her thru the house and parked her in my office. The curves evoke Gina Lollabrigida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Old k, I could have a fondle of your wife's v50 if you like. I am in Sydney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 For those uneducated heathens, A Guzzi has very proud jugs and you buggers keep your eyes and grubby mittens off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Old k, I could have a fondle of your wife's v50 if you like. I am in Sydney. Dirty b...! Oh, you mean you are interested in a mechanical restoration job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Ah.......yes, off course that's what I meant. What's wrong with the little beasty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 The main problem is excessive clearance between all of the components. I sent her to a bloke who wanted a restoration project. Much later, when they sent him to gaol, I retrieved her, in pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 "I retrieved her, in pieces." Couldent the power's in charge, get the prisoner a good hobby, like restoring a motorcycle !. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 ...Couldent the power's in charge, get the prisoner a good hobby, like restoring a motorcycle !. spacesailor Prisons are like retirement/nursing homes in this respect: it's often considered too expensive to provide selfi-improvement or mental stimulation for the poor damned inmates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Sorry guys, I'm a bit slow on the uptake. At risk of being labelled 'heathen' What is a Laredo? Google led me down Hardly Daveyson path, an I expected something loftier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 It’s a Lario which is a Guzzi but someone else will have to tell both of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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