Albo to the rescue

[Siso]

I do believe in climate change and something needs to be done about. I also believe Australia's contribution is so little we should address it in a sensible way instead of sending the country broke. Being able to mine and process material as close to the mining operation is good for climate change. Sending the raw material overseas on dirty bunker oil burning ships for processing because of the unreliability and cost of the electricity here helps nobody. Australia has some of the best environmental and workplace laws anywhere. Unfortunately that increase cost so we need an abundant source of low carbon, cheap reliable electricity. Intermittent generation is cheap to produce when it is there but extremely expensive when its not. before you say it, Is NP expensive in the long term. Have a look at open Nem. If we could smash the black and brown line at the bottom, the Intermittents and conventional hydro can handle the rest with minimal extra transmission than what we have now, minimal artificial inertia, and some decent pumped hydro. Win win. Why is NP expected to be self sufficient when the current plan is getting subsidised continually. LGC's, CIS, etc etc.

Open Electricity: NEM

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-needs-to-quadruple-its-number-of-wind-farms-this-year-none-have-been-funded-20250919-p5mwfc.html

[facthunter]

It WAS an election Promise. Cost of nuclear is shown in tender Figures. Build time is long and often runs well over accepted Price. Are We going to process Our Yellow Cake? That's NOT Nuthin. and Where's the Disposal going to be? It's a world wide Problem. No one wants to Be Near a Nuclear Power station.  Blowing one UP would be catastrophic and with Solar You are Independent of the  Type of people who would charge you for Oxygen if they could find a Way to do it. any STEAM in the process is Low efficiency and more failure prone. Nev

[Siso]

We've been over all that before.😑

[facthunter]

Don't think so. There's a few NEW aspects like Joining the Nuclear club and others you don't want to address. Nev

[onetrack]

W.A. has a unique stand-alone power grid covering a third of the continent and there are many isolated mines that require huge power. The problems are all being addressed by wind, solar, grid-scale batteries, and diesel backup in remote regions - which is working quite satisfactorily for most operators.

Kalgoorlie-Boulder has been having some problems, but that is a problem connected to backup generators, that are not performing when the grid goes down, or when it's switched off for upgrades/maintenance, etc.

 

The big test will be to see if we can do without our Collie coal power generation in the time frame set - 2030. At this point, the time frame is looking too optimistic. But Collie has been losing money hand over fist for more than a decade, so no loss there.

 

W.A. taxpayers poured over $310M into reconditioning the Muja AB (Collie) power station in 2009 - pushed by the Barnett Liberal Govt - that became a total and absolute waste - the generator was corroded out from top to bottom, and became a money pit, the timeline for the reconditioning blew out from 2011 to 2015 - and it was scrapped within 2 years of the reconditioning, as it looked like another $500M would be needed to keep it operational.

 

In addition, hundreds of millions were wasted here on the left coast, in separating retail electricity from the power generation side. Multiple corporations were formed at huge expense (with finance and accounting companies getting richly rewarded), and then within a few years, the corporations had to be merged again - "to reduce costs".

 

The same thing happened in S.A. - it reportedly cost S.A. electricity users $350M in the early 2000's for their power "corporations" debacle, when the Govt-owned electricity provider was split up.

So, it's not just the power generation methods that are creating unnecessary costs for electricity users, it's also the shonky management of those assets.

 

Edited September 25 by onetrack

[Litespeed]

An example of publicise the losses and privatise the profits on a grand scale.

 

Power should be a government service with only open transparent contracting to install the the actual power source  if government invests to encourage competition. No Macquarie bank style schemes. The running  and ownership should be in government hands for the entire grid  power system. The grid would be maintained  by the government by permanent staff.   Yes, that means a large public service but it would employ and have the level of ability to replace the current system of private contracting.

A gov grid would also maintain long term knowledge and expertise in house, no consultants or other profit gougers. It would also mean there is always a place of responsibility for the quality and price of the service. 

 

It would be far cheaper than all the for profit large and small contractors with the gravy train of inefficiency that means. You could privately own a system/micro grid and feed the gov grid, but you directly sell the power to the government grid. No multi layer ownerships and profit gouging/rent seeking capitalism. 

Then  you can buy direct from the grid or through a retail seller who buys it from the grid at a small discount. The discount should be fixed irrespective of scale to encourage small and competitive retailers. No massive discounts for very large retailers and buyers.

By having the gov grid as a default retail seller the market would be hugely competitive with tight margins and no incentive for big capital markets to game the system.

 

Currently a far larger part of power prices are the baked in profit centres in the system of getting it to your door. The generation price can often be less the 40% of a bill. And those generators owners make a profit.

No bullshit energy price market that skyrockets prices,if a generator fails it allows gaming of the system. The current game means a big operator with multiple power stations can actually profit by putting a station out of action by intent or neglect. The price rockets as do the profits with no incentive to get it back on line quickly.

 

We have a clear case of market failure.

 

We most certainly should not provide large consumers like aluminium smelters a heavy price subsidy. The local smelter at Tomago uses a huge 8,300 GWhr a year with a constant 950MW load, that's 10% of the states power at a minimum. Nor should we give big handouts to them to invest in their own systems. The vast majority of that is by burning coal. They must pull their own weight for renewable power. 

 

The big consumers can invest in their own power generation either alone or as cooperative groups. As could local communities of housing,  new estates, councils. With solar on roofs and home batteries with electric cars combined, a  local area community  can be a collective grid.

A large local battery and  public solar shades in carparks, public seating etc can mean a local micro grid that provides its own needs at a fraction of todays current market system price. It could still be connected to the overall grid and provide stability both ways.

Local businesses would bloom with minimal daytime energy costs as they use up all the excess solar when the micro grid storage is full. Any excess gets fed into the government grid and paid into the community account at a fair rate.  Most grid consumers would rarely pay a bill and often get paid to make power. Electric car owners would have local charging at the carpark and home. 

 

 A micro grid community would be a cooperative that owns it's power grid and only interacts with the government grid.  The public grid should only charge sufficient to maintain and invest. It should not be a dividend provider of government. 

 

Currently our energy economy is fundamentally flawed and needs a clean sheet design as a fundamental service by government. 

 

I need a 🍺 

 

 

 

 

 

[onetrack]

Litespeed, it gets better. You might need a whole carton of beer to dull the energy costs pain .......

 

 

ENERGY NEWS:

 

Ausgrid recorded a significant profit of $546 million for the most recent period (FY ended June 30, 2025), with $517 million of that being handed to shareholders, as customers face rising power bills. This was a "bumper profit" for the company and was met with criticism, given the increase in customer electricity costs. 

 

Key Details:

• Profit Amount: Ausgrid's profit for the most recent period was $546 million. 
   
• Shareholder Payout: $517 million of this profit was distributed to shareholders. 
   
• Context: This profit was reported as Australian households are experiencing higher electricity prices. 
   
• Regulatory Scrutiny: The Australian Energy Regulator (AER) is reportedly under scrutiny for agreeing to increase Ausgrid's operating budget by nearly 10%. 
   
• Criticism: The situation has drawn criticism, with some labeling it an "insane profit" as electricity costs for consumers continue to rise. 

Edited September 25 by onetrack

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

There was an 8 3/4 hour outage here on the 22 Sep in the day time. No warning, nice sunny day, so no storm activity, no lightning or strong winds. The supplier just decided to peeve us off.

 

I've been writing them down since 2013, about 300 so far. Most have been very brief, but still got to reset all the electronic devices around the house after each outage.

[old man emu]

There is a lot of pole replacement going on in my area, which means day-long power outages. At least the power supplier gives plenty of advance warning. The next such outage is on 20 October.

[Jerry_Atrick]

16 hours ago, onetrack said:

• Profit Amount: Ausgrid's profit for the most recent period was $546 million. 
   
• Shareholder Payout: $517 million of this profit was distributed to shareholders. 

That is completely nuts. Most ASX listed companies (and most large companies period) pay out between 30% and 50% of net profit as dividend.  This is to allow profits to be reinvested into the business for growthand a buffer against bad times.. But you know, that investment in the case of Ausgrid would be to modernise it to, amongst other things, oh I dunno, handle electrcitity generated from other sources such as, oh, I dunno, wind and solar; or modernise distribution models for batteries, etc.. you know, stuff that allows investors a decent return, but smooths the transistion rather than the big cost that everyone is claiming it will be. At leeast only 17% of the profits is going overseas with the NSW government the main beneficiary of 40-off percent ownership. 

On 25/09/2025 at 3:16 AM, Siso said:

We are already subsidising intermittent generation, GT's running for inetia, syn cons, transmission for the dispersed generation and loss of industry(jobs for our kids)

The loss of jobs is a furphy.. to maintain a renewable system will require as many if not more jobs, and hthe benefit is it will spread it more evenly across the regions as by definition, renwble generation will have to be more distributed, and it has to be maintained. I have spent quite some time in the nuclear generation industry and the amount of people needed to run a nuclear plant isn't what it used to be. Bring in SMRs - and the maintenance is a whole lot less. No one is going in every day and touchign the reactor.. it is the usual stuff like turbines, pumps, etc that are being maintained. That is the same for a coal or nuclear plant. Control systems are far better when they were, and telemetry is deployed a lot more than it was. A lot of the extrra people requied to run a nuclear plant over a coal plant are the helath and safety personnel and much higher levels of security (there is a separate nuclear power police force or something like that in the UK, and they are virtually anti-terrorist units). 

 

On 24/09/2025 at 6:05 AM, Siso said:

UK have started the process of building Sizewell C which is going to comprise 2 x 1750MW EPR reactors. Surprising as it is the same type as Hinkley. 

Yes, they are the same - EPRs. Sizewell was already running late before the first pour of concrete. Hinkley point is years and billions behind (check out the vid I posted in proud parents - daughter was in it for putting the dome pn reactor 2). Bith are subssidised and guaranteed by the govnermnet - socilaise the losses and guarantee the profits. In addition, there are minimum price guarantees per mw/h. Hinkley point was guaranteed at £92 per mw/h indexed from 2012. AI tells me the average spot for wholesale electricity was about £50 per mw/hr.. That is a f$cking big difference - so much for cheap power. Sizewell has similar guarantees.. So, the government has entered a huge contract for difference.. with the exception it fdoesn't pay out for the government. So much for efficient electricity.

 

BTW, all this meddling is not exactly free market and in other coutries, we woudl call it communism. If you want to get jobs going in Aus, supoort a new indiustry manufacturing reneables technology and sell it (or at least use it locally),. Individually renewables is internmittent, but we are not just placing it in one spot in all of Australia, are we?

Edited September 26 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

Airbus Albo now in England. He's everywhere but here. Meanwhile, his best buddy Buffoon has just imposed 100% tariffs on pharma.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 minutes ago, red750 said:

Albo now in England.

Yeah - noticed the property prices took a dip 

[facthunter]

BS red. You can't help yourself.    Nev

[red750]

So the video on the news was faked?

[pmccarthy]

Funny, I saw it on the news too.

[Marty_d]

It's important for the PM to be on the world stage as well as at home.

In my opinion he's doing bloody well. He's stood up at the UN and announced an emissions target, and recognized a Palestinian state, two things that the USA are going exactly the wrong way on. Plus he still managed to keep the orange buffoon on side and organized a face to face with him, the lack of which the LNP has been bitching about non-stop.

At the moment Australia is looking like a sensible, mature and trustworthy country, unlike several others.

[rgmwa]

Well said.

[Jerry_Atrick]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

Airbus Albo

Another myth propgagated nby Skey News et al.. Amazing how if someone puts a catchy degenerative term in front of someone's name,  they believe it - or take it hook line and sinker, without doing a modium of research on their own.

 

Here is a look at it. Disable javascript to read it if you want. I daren't put an ABC report for its claimed bias: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/airbus-albo-take-that-bait-and-you-ve-been-played-like-a-trout-20231101-p5egud.html

 

 

 

 

 

[red750]

Oh! Heaven forbid! How dare I have the audacity to criticise or even comment on anything the ALP does.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Are you going to criticise Sco Mo for taking more domestiic and international flights than Albo over the same period? And Abbot also taking more flights over the same period? Or do you avoid that because the ALP don't resort to childish slurs, or because they are from the LP... ?

 

Of course you're free to criticise; but, if you are going to say something, even if it is a criticism that itself deserves criticism, well, expect to be criticised for it.

 

Also, I recall Albo having to travel a lot in the first year to repair the damage done by Chump wannabes of ScoMo et al. So basically tracing the same steps as ScoMo, except with less flights! Yet, ScoMo was doing all of that travel on his own initiative. And I think, given the current volatility in the world at the moment, are you saying our head of state should not try and influence affairs for the better of both the world and Australia.. or maybe he should cower to name calling by, frankly, what looks like a bunch of rank amatuers - and so being adjudged in the polls?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Wasn't Peta Credlin blasting Albo for not having had a face-to-face meeting with Trump? Meetings with Trump are at Trump's request (command???).  He's the one who allocates time at the 19th for important meetings with staunch allies.

[facthunter]

They NEVER let up, Sky et Al. with their rubbish and lies. Repeating it here $#!ts me and I will call it out for what it IS. Nev

[red750]

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are NOT entitled to tell anyone else what theirs should be. We are all entitled to our opinion, whether right or wrong.

 

Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't. But you think it's OK to say whatever you want about anyone and call them all sorts of names, but jump all over me when I do the same. Then you turn around and blast Trump for saying the disgusting things he says about Democrats.

[facthunter]

You are missing the Point  I'm trying to make . It's also YOUR  choice to REPUBLISH  Murdoch Crap and I will continue to RESPOND as must be allowed. I don't Post STUFF from Crap Biased sources and I strive for FACT in a world becoming increasingly Hard to do that.  I do that in My words as that is all I can do and I do answer any respectful questions I don't Recall Blasting Trump about Democrats particularly I doubt I mention US Democrats much at all. There's Plenty if Things to Object to about How Trump is doing his Job But I'm Not alone there.  I also respect the Result of Votes in  Australian Elections vetted by the AEC. Is "Best Buddy Buffon" a true portrayal of Albanese's relationship with the Potus? That's the BIT I called BS.. Nev

[Siso]

On 26/09/2025 at 4:56 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

We are already subsidising intermittent generation, GT's running for inetia, syn cons, transmission for the dispersed generation and loss of industry(jobs for our kids)

The loss of jobs is a furphy.. to maintain a renewable system will require as many if not more jobs, and hthe benefit is it will spread it more evenly across the regions as by definition, renwble generation will have to be more distributed, and it has to be maintained. I have spent quite some time in the nuclear generation industry and the amount of people needed to run a nuclear plant isn't what it used to be. Bring in SMRs - and the maintenance is a whole lot less. No one is going in every day and touchign the reactor.. it is the usual stuff like turbines, pumps, etc that are being maintained. That is the same for a coal or nuclear plant. Control systems are far better when they were, and telemetry is deployed a lot more than it was. A lot of the extrra people requied to run a nuclear plant over a coal plant are the helath and safety personnel and much higher levels of security (there is a separate nuclear power police force or something like that in the UK, and they are virtually anti-terrorist units). 

I wasn't talking about jobs in the energy sector. Jobs that come from having reliable, affordable electricity. Jobs like value adding to our mining industry which would make it more environmentally friendly. exporting ore overseas and the coking coal to process it on large oil burning ships is not good for the environment, especially when part of the volume in that ore is waste. I know NP is expensive but it is plant that will last potentially 80 years with good maintenance. EPR's aren't the most economical to build but there are others that will get cheaper as more are built. Can anyone tell us what the price of a grid run on weather dependent intermittenents (Aust only has about 7% conventional hydro) plus all the extras will costs, storage etc. No-one actual knows because no-one has done it before. Do we really want to put all our eggs in one basket? Germany pushes up the price of Sweden's power so it looks like they aren't going to build another interconnector. Australia has no France, Sweden or Norway to help us out if it fails. Can the last person out turn out the lights (if they are working)- France exporting about 12GW at the moment

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swedish-government-says-no-new-power-cable-germany-2024-06-14/

https://www.ft.com/content/f0b621a1-54f2-49fc-acc1-a660e9131740

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/FR/72h/hourly