Electric car thread

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

pay per kilometre would be fair. 

An accounting nightmare. How would the rate per km be determined? The one determinate would be the mass of the vehicle since the amount of damage a vehicle does to a road surface is dependent on the vehicle's mass. But then, what about money for the upkeep of signalling devices, signage, lane marking etc? 

 

The problem is in determining how the GST revenue is distributed. If yoiu are interested, here's a link to a document about it:

 https://www.cgc.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-11/research_paper_no_2_-_why_states_get_different_shares_of_gst_0.pdf

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 hours ago, nomadpete said:

The fuel excise is long overdue for scrapping. The tax system needs revision.

 

Modern technology should be capable of automated reporting of vehicle use.

pay per kilometre would be fair. 

 

I agree with most of the above, except if we are to do a tax that takes into account a vehicle tax of the damage done that has to be repaired, then the cost per k would vary per vehicle or attributes of vehicles. And it isn't that simple. Although redicing, the emissions of manufacturing EVs is higher than ICE cars thanks to that battery, and although it has been rediuved from an average of 5 years on normal driving conditions/mileage to 3 years, that is the time, on average that the emissions for whole of life are in balance, after which EV emissions for whole of life drop. Then there is excess weight that damages the roads. But, despite how far emissions controls have come, ICE engines will always spew out toxins/poisons that have an effect on the health of the population and increase health costs, etc etc etc. So coming up with a truly fair formula is very difficult. 

 

In the UK, ICE vehicles (outside od trucks/commercial vehicles over a certain weight) are taxed (rego fees)  according to their emissions. Pre 2017 HSV Commodores (known here as VXR8s) will be sligged at £720/year. My XC90 is about £400/year. The mini was £260 year. EVs up until the end of this financial year (April 5th in the UK), are zero. The government which is both broke and buying votes at the same time, decided a change so cars post 2017 such as a VXR8 (if there are any) will only pay a higher tax for the first five years of their life, which will equate to something like £700, after which it will reduce to around £245/year. That doesn't seem like a goverment using tax to affect behaviour to meet net zero (but they seem to be more unpopular than the previous Conservative government). 

 

EVs road tax went from zero to £10/year this financial year. Next financial year, there will be two tiering of road tax. Those over a certain value will be treated as luxury cars and attain the same tax as an old VXR8. I think the value os over £40k. Those under will be subject to a 3p per mile tax for BEVs and 1.5 p per mile tax for hybrids (in the basis, they will consume petrol/diesel for hald of their journey over the year). At an average of 10,000 miles per year, the road tax is said to average for EVs of £300 and £150 for hybrids. The justification for this is domestic electiricy use is VAT free. 

 

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

How would the rate per km be determined?

They estimated the average distanc per car travelled, the average rate of tax paid, and divided the average rate of tax paid by the average miles per car.. 

 

The will work by estimating your annual mileage. When a car is sold, or when it has its annual MOT (RWC), the mileage is already recorded; if they are close, there will be no adjustment; if they are materially different, there will be an adjustment either way - a credit for the next year's tax or you add the difference to the next years' tax. TNote, for the first three years from new, you don't need to get a MOT, so you can submit your mileage or wait to you sell, have your first MOT, whichever comes first, and then you will be slugged or receive a credit. 

 

They will eventually roll out the tech to record the mileage - dog knows there are enough camerals already around the place - it would be a matter of a software update I would guess.

[old man emu]

Averaging mileage is not equitable. Compare my mileage with one of our city-dwelling members. If I go into town, it's a 20 km round trip. About once per fortnight I go into Dubbo. That's a 150 km round trip. What is the mileage for a city-dweller going to a shopping centre? That is the simplest case. What about a family vehicle which is used for transport to work each day and recreation on the weekends?

 

The most equitable way is through the GST pad for fuel. My light car uses about 7.5 l/100 km. A family SUV, which is heavier, uses about 10. So the more a vehicle is used, the more fuel it burns and therefore fuel purchses are related to vehicle weight. This then creates a problem getting contributions to road infrastructure from hybrids and EVs.

 

As Yul Bryner was want ot say in The King and I, "'Tis a puzzlement!"

[facthunter]

In NZ there was a counter on one wheel on hire cars. There's plenty of ways it could be done. Use the car More. Pay a bit more. Toll roads have been in existence for Ages. Yul Bryner also said "Don't SMOKE.  Nev

[kgwilson]

Fuel excise is about 50 cents a litre. GST is calculated on the retail price including the excise so an additional 10%. EVs currently pay nothing but hybrids pay whenever they fill up with petrol or diesel. Studies have shown that hybrids don't get anywhere near the economy quoted by the manufacturer. This is partly due to the fact that many hybrid owners don't recharge them regularly.

 

They are already taxing EVs in NZ and it is on the basis of providing an odometer reading at certain intervals. This also occurs with diesel cars but commercial diesel vehicles are fitted with hub meters. Diesel doesn't have excise tax in NZ so it is cheaper at the pump than petrol.

 

Victoria had a short lived tax on EV distance travelled but it was pulled after the court ruled it illegal as only the federal gov't can levy such taxes.

[octave]

 

 

 

 

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In New Zealand, light diesel vehicles (under 3,500 kg) are subject to Road User Charges (RUC) rather than a fuel tax at the pump.

 

• Standard Light Diesel Rate: The current RUC rate for standard light diesel vehicles is NZD $76 per 1,000 km.
• Per-Kilometer Breakdown: This equates to 7.6 cents per kilometer (plus admin/transaction fees when purchasing).
• Rental Vehicles: Many rental car providers pass this cost on, often charging around $0.0874 per km (including GST) to cover the RUC.
• How it Works: Vehicle owners must pre-purchase RUC licenses in increments of 1,000 km.
• Administration: The system relies on odometer readings, with updates checked during WoF inspections. 
   

Note: The RUC applies to diesel vehicles, plug-in hybrids, and electric vehicles (EVs) to fund road maintenance, ensuring all vehicles pay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

There are far too many Wars going on in the world and apart from the Trauma and Inhumanity etc The cost is borne by all of us. Ukraine has been going on nearly as Long as WW2  Free trade is needed to  be Guaranteed  for stability. Not varied on the Whim of some Ignorant  Racist Dictator seeking profit for Himself and his Flatterers and EF the environment. The biggest FAKE object is the Present POTUS.  No electric vehicles as far as He's concerned .The Trump Created fuel crisis Must be a Big Impetus to More electric cars. Nev