Are we True or simply Cultural believers in God?

[facthunter]

It might be holy water and red dye. The bit of bread had nothing on it either. I stopped going there.  Nev

[nomadpete]

45 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It might be holy water and red dye. The bit of bread had nothing on it either. I stopped going there.  Nev

 

A jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and thou.

 

The church version pales in comparison.

[facthunter]

 A clay jar of  local red wine and a bowl of Paella in Barcelona was better. It was a wild chicken (bird of some kind) and tasty as. Trouble is it's a bit far to go. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon that old Omar was the world's first athiest....  he wrote "And that inverted bowl we call the sky,

"whereunder crawling cooped we live and die... Raise not your hands for IT to help,

"for it rolls impotently on as thou and I" and, much later " Who is the potter,pray, and who the pot?" 

For many years, I thought that the translator was an atheist who only pretended to translate so he would not be killed for thinking such blasphemous stuff himself. But Fitzgerald was only one of many translators so that makes old Omar the world's first atheist.

Here's a bit of trivia....  many more soldiers in WW1 had a copy of the rubaiyat of Omar Khayam than ever carried a bible, and quite right too, says I. WW1 marked the end of Christendom as a place on earth.

[Bruce Tuncks]

In Benghazi, there is a hotel called the "Omar Khayam" hotel and I have actually stayed there so this all must be correct huh.

[Marty_d]

10 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Raise not your hands for IT to help..

True. All they say is "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"

[Jerry_Atrick]

And then they say, "When we've fixed the problem stopping you getting onto your computer, we'll email you"

[Jerry_Atrick]

Back to the question... I am not sure there is a difference between a true or cultural believer in god - or anything for that matter. What I may believe in as a god and what you may believe in as a god may be different, even if we are in the same religion. But in the absence of evidence of a god (again, whatever a god is), it is only a belief.. and one either believes in it or they don't - and a belief will, in the absence of evidence, always be a cultural thing. If people believe in god while they attend a midnight Christmas mass, for example, but don't believe it god any other time, then, they don't believe in god.. They are there because they under under cultural pressure or desire to be there, but they don't believe in god. So, if you ask, do we practice religious rituals because of culture (or tradition) or because we believe in the religion and its manifestation of god, that is different. 

 

I know people who have lost loved ones well before their time. I had a job at Aussie Disposals in Hawthorn as a teenager, and a young lady lost her mum. She came from a family of believers, yet after her loss, she definitely did not believe in god. As I recall, she did continue some religious rituals, and yes, they were cultural and tradition, but no, she didn't believe in god. 

 

[Edit] I don't believe in god because of the lack of evidence. However, that is not to say a god (or many, depending on one's definition) doesn't or didn't exist. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

BTW, I am sure I have posted this elsewhere in the forums, but here is also a good place to post it:

 

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

And then they say, "When we've fixed the problem stopping you getting onto your computer, we'll email you"

In my recent case, when I couldn't  access my member portal they sent a polite email that went like this...

I emailed a question to the help desk. No reply. I phoned the help line. After a looong time on hold I left a message. No reply. Next day I raised a online help request and  got a docket number.

At last! A reply!

 

"We are implementing a new online experience to streamline your claims. At present there is a backlog. We are looking into it. If we don't hear any more from you over the next 48hrs, we will close your docket"

 

Followed ten minutes later by another email saying "We have closed your docket, have a nice day"

 

I still couldn't  access my member portal.

 

And that was the result of an enquiry to my hospital insurance.

 

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Back to the question... I am not sure there is a difference between a true or cultural believer in god - or anything for that matter. What I may believe in as a god and what you may believe in as a god may be different, even if we are in the same religion. But in the absence of evidence of a god (again, whatever a god is), it is only a belief.. and one either believes in it or they don't - and a belief will, in the absence of evidence, always be a cultural thing. If people believe in god while they attend a midnight Christmas mass, for example, but don't believe it god any other time, then, they don't believe in god.. They are there because they under under cultural pressure or desire to be there, but they don't believe in god. So, if you ask, do we practice religious rituals because of culture (or tradition) or because we believe in the religion and its manifestation of god, that is different. 

 

I know people who have lost loved ones well before their time. I had a job at Aussie Disposals in Hawthorn as a teenager, and a young lady lost her mum. She came from a family of believers, yet after her loss, she definitely did not believe in god. As I recall, she did continue some religious rituals, and yes, they were cultural and tradition, but no, she didn't believe in god. 

 

[Edit] I don't believe in god because of the lack of evidence. However, that is not to say a god (or many, depending on one's definition) doesn't or didn't exist. 

Good points Jerry.

It is a nebulous topic.

Many facets to the whole picture.

I used to go to church occasionally. The usual  -  xmas, Easter,  weddings, funerals. Clearly simply a learned cultural habit. But in spite of the shallow spiritual depth of my motivation, sometimes I have been emotionally moved by a religious  service.

I wanted to believe. But eventually, after many deep discussions with a very open and honest c of e minister, I concluded a god would not hide from its creation. Nor leave ambiguous signs.  I had to admit that until there is more real evidence I cannot be a believer.

 

That was due, I think, to my psychological make-up rather than learned culture.

 

The next person will probably answer differently, as is their right.

[old man emu]

19 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

the rubaiyat of Omar Khayam

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
     Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

 

That was how it was until we got Autocorrect.

[old man emu]

31 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

I used to go to church occasionally. The usual  -  xmas, Easter,  weddings, funerals.

Going to church weddings and funerals are not things one does because of one's belief if a god. We do it out of respect for the people involved. We attend garden weddings and graveside funerals because these things never originated from anything spiritual. Even the Neanderthals had funereal practices. Who knows if they were motivated by a sense of spirituality. 

 

Is attending Christmas (and I note the use of the Greek letter chi - X -) or Easter services simply a way of saying, "I belong to this societal group", but don't really involve myself in its intricacies?

[pmccarthy]

the rubaiyat of Omar Khayam
 

a rich wine-sipping potentate

a poet at some earlier date

was recently heard loud to cry

I'll eat my ruby hat if I

taste equal to Yalumba Dry.

 

with a picture, this wa a full- page advert.

[old man emu]

Religions explained.

 

[facthunter]

The Usual Christian God is part a triumvirate which is pretty hard to cop and also the GOD is jealous and can get angry and ignore us and be blamed for so doing. (allowing war etc) He's got human like failings and since we are all sinners and fallen short of the glory of God  and HE SHE, IT created US in HIS own  image Just WHO mucked up?? The MK1 Humans are destined for eternal hellfire and Brimstone unless we accept the "RISEN" Christ as the only way to redeem our selves. Isn't that the story? .

[nomadpete]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

The Usual Christian God is part a triumvirate which is pretty hard to cop and also the GOD is jealous and can get angry and ignore us and be blamed for so doing. (allowing war etc) He's got human like failings and since we are all sinners and fallen short of the glory of God  and HE SHE, IT created US in HIS own  image Just WHO mucked up?? The MK1 Humans are destined for eternal hellfire and Brimstone unless we accept the "RISEN" Christ as the only way to redeem our selves. Isn't that the story? .

If there are Mk1 humans, there must be Mk2 ones on the pruduction line after all this time. Maybe you or I are Mk2 humans?

I looked and looked but I can't see a model number or service bulletin on me anywhere. It  might have fallen off.

[spacesailor]

Then ' you ' must be that " first model " LoL

spacesailor

[facthunter]

YOU have to effect the remedy for the Unintelligent design. I personally think millions of years gives plenty of time for evolution to produce complex life forms.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

If there are Mk1 humans, there must be Mk2 ones

Be careful what you ask for... sometimes successive models are worse than the originals! 😉

 

[nomadpete]

43 minutes ago, facthunter said:

millions of years gives plenty of time for evolution to produce complex life forms.  Nev

But unfortunately  not enough time to produce a Mk2 flawless model.

[nomadpete]

2 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Be careful what you ask for... sometimes successive models are worse than the originals! 😉

 

Never buy the beta version of anything.

[spacesailor]

FEAR .

IS what keeps most religious people in line .

Even people who know better serccumb. To that fear of Not getting to " valhalla , pearly gates, heaven ," or whichever your deity , you have been Given .

Or , did ' You ' choose ? .

spacesailor

 

[pmccarthy]

Beware the model era of tail fins.

[facthunter]

Taken over by the "Funny" people?   ALL MEN have fallen short of the glory of God. Surely that's a very high FAILURE rate for any product.? It should dispel any concept of "Intelligent DESIGN" that is proposed by many. The fact we have common GENES with many life forms has to be considered as well and the Universe is definitely NOT only 6300 years old.    Nev