What about Joe?

[onetrack]

Talk about doing a runner in the dark of night, with your tail between your legs.

 

Imagine the military hardware losses the American taxpayer is paying for, with all that military (and civilian) equipment left behind?

 

The Taliban will be the best equipped guerillas in the region from here on in.

[Dax]

6 hours ago, onetrack said:

Imagine the military hardware losses the American taxpayer is paying for, with all that military (and civilian) equipment left behind?

 

They do that with every war they enter, WW2, korea, Vietnam, you name it they leave just about everything behind and only take their best fighting equipment. Coyld be the cost of hauling it all back to the US, or maybe it makes sense for their arms suppliers to continue to make profits. After all, they really don't care about waste, just profit growth.

[onetrack]

You're right in the last line. The U.S. military-industrial complex is quite happy to blow mind-boggling billions on hardware, and leave it all behind in any theatre they operate in.

 

That way, they can design and test new hardware, and try it out against the old hardware the enemies are now in possession of.

And of course, there's no backup for the stuff the enemy inherited, so they have to run it piecemeal, by cannibalising other machines.

 

Remember when North Vietnam ended up with the worlds best Air Force of any country besides the U.S., after the Americans left Vietnam?

 

It virtually all ended up as scrap, because there was no support, the North Vietnamese were not trained to use it, and they basically couldn't afford to run it, anyway.

[willedoo]

Poor old Afghanistan. The Americans leaving is just the start of the next geopolitical chapter in a very sad tale. In a way, it's a double edged sword for both the U.S. and the Russian Federation. How it plays out, only time will tell. The Americans have walked away from a mess and in the long term will save some money and lives which is good for their domestic politics. To salvage something positive from their failure, they will most likely try their hardest to make it Russia's headache.

 

The Taliban are strong in the north around the border with Tajikistan, a strong ally of Russia. In recent fighting, about 1,600 Afghan troops have retreated over the Tajikistan border and now the Taliban control some border crossings. Russia has a large permanent military presence in Tajikistan and in the last few days Putin has spoken to the President of Tajikistan to offer additional troops if needed to secure the border. That part of it will be easy for Russia as the bulk of their infrastructure is already in Tajikistan. Russia is committed to defending Tajikistan as a member of the Collective Security Treaty Organization.

 

The U.S. will no doubt continue to fund the Afghan government so they can pay off the right warlords to ensure the government holds Kabul. What would make things tricky for Russia would be if they also fund the Taliban to push into Tajikistan and in so doing, involve Russia in a regional conflict. Deja vu the Soviet Afghan war.

 

How it would backfire for the Americans would be if Russia were to keep control of the situation. In that case, the power vacuum left by the U.S. would be filled by Russia, with Russia seen as a guarantor of regional security in the area. For Russia not to emerge as the winner of all this, the Americans will have to practice the trickiest of their not very clean tricky tricks.

 

Where it stands now, it looks like another failed mess by the U.S.. Maybe they could employ Scotty, the Sultan of Spin, to market it as a victory. I bet the Afghans are already saying " America, where the bloody hell are you? ".

[Marty_d]

Apparently the Chinese are going to have a crack at Afghanistan next.  I thought they learned from history.

[willedoo]

Here's the much talked about satirical piece by The Onion, written in 2011. Ten years later, it reads like a true story.

 

https://www.theonion.com/u-s-quietly-slips-out-of-afghanistan-in-dead-of-night-1819572778

[onetrack]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Apparently the Chinese are going to have a crack at Afghanistan next.  I thought they learned from history.

It's O.K. The Chinese will just round up all the Taliban and send them to the Uyghur re-education camps. Problem solved. We all know how much the Chinese love Muslims.

[Old Koreelah]

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

It's O.K. The Chinese will just round up all the Taliban and send them to the Uyghur re-education camps. Problem solved. We all know how much the Chinese love Muslims.

If only they would!

Afghan women know that primitive bunch will use modern, western weapons and tools to drag their religious backwater back to the Middle Ages. 

Too little, too late, they are protesting:

https://www.ibtimes.com.au/armed-afghan-women-demonstrate-against-taliban-1732894

 

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/world/act-of-defiance-armed-with-assault-rifles-afghan-women-take-to-streets-against-taliban-544496.html

 

Perhaps I’m missing something, but we don’t hear the Islamic world protesting about the treatment of their co-religionists in western China. The secular and Christian West seems to be leading the campaign to protect the rights of China’s Muslims.

[willedoo]

According to the press, the Americans from Bagram had the courtesy to ring the Afghans from Kabul airport. That was nice of them. At least they got to say goodbye on the phone.

[willedoo]

Apparently the Americans departing Bagram left small arms and ammunition but took heavier weapons and destroyed the ammunition dumps for them. They left hundreds of armoured vehicles and a mass of civilian cars. They took the keys to most of the cars.

 

Under new management:

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by willedoo

[kgwilson]

In 1975 I backpacked from the UK to India & spent several weeks in Afghanistan. It was part of what was known as the hippy trail back then. I found the people friendly and hospitable. I could go wherever I liked. I crossed the border from Iran on foot as the Iranian bus stopped at the Iran border control which was closed so I spent the night in a wadi in my little orange tent then after border control walked the 1500 metres to the Afghan side. They were pretty happy to see me and the US$20.00 note in my passport. This was standard practice everywhere & ensured an event free entry.

 

I got a rickety old bus to Herat where I stayed for a week. The people were great the food was good and I eventually left for Kandahar, and on to Kabul. Then Afghans were masters of their own destiny after giving the British the heave ho and every thing was laid back and relatively ordered. It was just a matter of respecting their customs and dressing appropriately. I went up to the mountains by bus and saw the huge poppy fields. These were all controlled by various warlords but they seemed to have their own respected borders and I was never harassed & was welcomed everywhere. Even the trip through the infamous Khyber pass to Peshawar in Pakistan was a breeze.

 

How things have changed. First the Russians who ended up with a bloody nose & then the yanks who hauled the rest of the West in with them all for 20 years of failure. Is it any wonder that these people despise us. We have never learned that we cannot change their thousands of years old culture by trying to impose ours and all its imperfections, graft and corruption. The Yanks left 17,074 pieces of equipment mostly crap there after 20 fruitless years and umpteen trillions of dollars spent, 4000 deaths and 20,000 wounded. Over 241,000 Afghans have died, 71,000 of whom were civilians. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by kgwilson

[willedoo]

Afghanistan took a bad turn when the U.S. started arming, funding and training the Mujahideen to fight the Afghan government with the intent of drawing the government's ally, the Soviet Union, into a Vietnam style quagmire. It's understandable the Americans wanting some sort of revenge for the Soviets covertly fighting them in Korea and Vietnam, but it's sad that Afghanistan has always been the pawn to be expended in a much bigger chess game.

[nomadpete]

49 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

We have never learned that we cannot change their thousands of years old culture by trying to impose ours and all its imperfections, graft and corruption.

The above comment might equally apply to the Australian indigenous people. 🙂

 

Overall, your summary reassures my own (mostly guesswork) assessment. Sadly, just about everything that USA meddled with, turns out as a disaster for all concerned.

 

I sincerely hope the USA never comes to 'save' us!

 

[Yenn]

So whats new. Can you think of any place the Yanks have been since 1945, that they haven't stuffed up. can you think of any place where there presence has resulted in better living conditions for the local people.

Of course Australia is also responsible. Even John Howard seems to think so. He was responsible for dragging us into the Yanks nasty war and now says we have a moral responsibility. He of course is too made up with his image that he could not possibly be held responsible. It is all the fault of the Australians who voted for his party. Not the leader of the party.

[Marty_d]

I think there should be a plebiscite before Australia is allowed to go to war in a foreign country.

 

If we're invaded - no problem.  PM and cabinet make the decision.

If we're fulfilling UN peacekeeping role - no problem.  PM and cabinet.

However if there's any plan for Australia to join an invasion of a foreign country, it should damn well be put to the Australian people, along with the reasons for doing so, the proof that we should, and the long term goals and exit strategy.

 

[red750]

I saw some footage on Sky News of the Taliban moving in and grabbing the spoils ---- 20+ Huvees, shipping containers full of ammunition, scores of guns, some of them pretty impressive looking.

[Marty_d]

Knowing Sky New's level of accuracy, it was probably the Afghan army.  To them if you're wearing a keffiyeh you must be a terrorist.

[kgwilson]

Reported on the ABC today. The Taliban have taken control 85% of Afghanistan including the border crossing with Iran near Herat, the one I walked across in 1975. Sounds like a repeat of them being booted out of Vietnam when they were being choppered out of the embassy during the fall of Saigon & pushing Hueys off the deck of their ships so that more could land. Ironically this was in April 1975. 

[Yenn]

Joe did say that they had achieved their aim. Pity is that they kept their aims to themselves when John Howard brown nosed his way into Afghanistan for us.

What they state was their aim was to stop others attacking USA. I think they have caused more people to hate them by going into Afghanistan, than they would have by staying away. I don't care at all what happens to USA, but I do worry about us getting involved with our politicians having no idea what they are doing.

[red750]

Dutton on tonight's news said Australia's last six servicemen were withdrawn from Afghanistan in June.

[kgwilson]

I believe that there are still a few Americans there. They better have enough choppers to get them out. I think their problem is going to be that the Taliban are better armed than the Viet Cong were.

[Old Koreelah]

Let’s never forget how this disaster started: 

 

This photograph is from 1983, when Reagan and the CIA started helping Mujahadin fighters to undermine a secular government bent on modernizing Afghanistan. To the Americans, the main issue was that this government was supported by the USSR.

 

The result was a well-armed, well-trained group of jihadis who resisted (some say defeated) the onslaught of superior Soviet weaponry.

Once the Soviets retreated, the U.S. lost interest and pulled the funding. Osama bin Laden took interest, and filled the vacuum, later fathering the Taliban.

The rest, as they say, is history.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ronald-reagan-taliban-photo/

[kgwilson]

Reagan was a B grade actor, an ultra conservative and a warmonger. He got a nickname "Ronald Rayguns". And the US still wonders why nobody likes them.

[Old Koreelah]

21 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Reagan was a B grade actor, an ultra conservative and a warmonger. He got a nickname "Ronald Rayguns". And the US still wonders why nobody likes them.

Reagan is also the President who got America hopelessly into debt. 

Despite the claims of fiscal responsibility by Republicans, the last GOP president to balance the books was Eisenhower, over 60 years ago!

[willedoo]

13 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Let’s never forget how this disaster started: 

 

This photograph is from 1983, when Reagan and the CIA started helping Mujahadin fighters to undermine a secular government bent on modernizing Afghanistan. To the Americans, the main issue was that this government was supported by the USSR.

 

The result was a well-armed, well-trained group of jihadis who resisted (some say defeated) the onslaught of superior Soviet weaponry.

Once the Soviets retreated, the U.S. lost interest and pulled the funding. Osama bin Laden took interest, and filled the vacuum, later fathering the Taliban.

The rest, as they say, is history.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ronald-reagan-taliban-photo/

The U.S. did it with one intention. To draw Soviet military forces into a war in Afghanistan and send the USSR broke. It worked. Then all they had to do was find a drunken stooge (Yeltsin) to throw their support behind and presto - no Soviet Union. And the Yanks have the cheek to complain about the Russians interfering in their elections. It's laughable.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by willedoo