Scotty from Marketing

[Yenn]

Wouldn't a ghetto be better than homelessness?

[old man emu]

Wouldn't a ghetto be better than homelessness?

 

Of course it would. Unfortunately, the Utopian idea of putting the homeless, or economically deprived into public housing clusters soon leads to the creation of economically deprived ghettos, mainly because many of the people who go into them have had the will to climb out of deprivation knocked out of them by prior experience. These people have had their self-esteem and ambition quashed by circumstance.

[Marty_d]

Of course it would. Unfortunately, the Utopian idea of putting the homeless, or economically deprived into public housing clusters soon leads to the creation of economically deprived ghettos, mainly because many of the people who go into them have had the will to climb out of deprivation knocked out of them by prior experience. These people have had their self-esteem and ambition quashed by circumstance.

That depends how you make them. Yes, if you try to cluster a new suburb in a greenfields site, then you'll end up with a ghetto. However if you spread the new houses around existing established suburbs you won't.

[old man emu]

That depends how you make them

 

Too true. There are many suburbs around Sydney which were created in the 1970's by the Housing Commission and due to poor town planning (the idea came from the USA) and the culture of the people who went into the houses, they became ghettos and still are. Even where the estates were more open with detached houses, the fact that the occupants did not have any equity in them, and maintenance was a cost to the landlord (Housing Dept) they soon became dilapidated and unsightly - further adding to the depression of the occupants' self-esteem.

 

Attempts have been made to spread social housing through suburbs where occupant ownership is the norm, but then you run into the NIMBY response.

[facthunter]

When the majority of houses in any area become rented you can pick the change in the appearance of the place. Dead cars replace Lawns which are never mown.. I'm not for a COMPULSORY neat manicured lawn mown every second day deal, BUT these places look crook and unloved. Some of the high rise built in Melbourne quite a while ago is still functioning quite well but I think if you own it, you look after it better. I wouldn't want to own a rented property unless it was Industrial..I wouldn't want to rent my plane either if I still had one. People don't look after stuff because they don't value it enough.. Look at the litter left on roadsides. Many don't care. Nev

[willedoo]

I still think we should offer the Kiwis to swap Scotty FM for this one. She's endured a deadly volcanic eruption, a terrorist attack, and a pandemic as PM. And all that while raising a baby at the same time.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by willedoo

[nomadpete]

OME, that's a good point about 'older' attempts at provision of assisted housing.

I grew up in a outer suburb of Sydney, it was a sterile, treeless housing commission effort. Some were well kept (mostly those with war service loans). Some were not. But everyone was struggling to make ends meet.  Those from the least educated households tended to gravitate into the gangs. It was not an environment where it was easy to shake off the poverty that most were born into.

 

Later, in the 70's when I got a trade, I often worked out in the burbs. I got to see inside the homes of the wealthy and poor and everything between. I recall dreading going to Redfern public housing. These places were a government attempt at helping the poor. Three tall brick tenements with outside balcony hallway access to the cramped apartments. Like vertically stacked motels. There was an electric elevator but it only stopped at every third floor. Access required a long walk/climb. Building regs required that a building higher than 3 floors had to have a lift. No green space. No parking. No shops nearby. The occupants all wore a 'defeated' appearance. Periodic reports of 'another body found' on the pavement below. Usually someone's wife or child.

 

These places put a roof over desperate people's heads. But once trapped there, I'm not sure whether they might be better off living on the street.

 

Hopefully these 'solutions'will never be repeated.

 

 

[Yenn]

Scotty is still true to form. A couple of days ago he is reported as saying we are asked to provide a more forceful military stance. Or words to that effect.

Now we are going to spend a fortune on long range naval attack capabilities, although we have a non existent merchant navy. Spend a fortune on US equipment. The reason is obvious we have to brown nose to the Yanks.

He was asked he said. Who by? The village idiot, no doubt.

We seem to be going out of our way to destroy what is left of our economy, and also our credibility in the world.

I only have one thing to be thankful for and that is that I will not have to live through as much trouble as my descendents.

Scotty is playing up the fear factor and as it worked so well at the last election I can see why. It is just a pity that there is nobody with any reasoning ability anywhere in Canberra.

[old man emu]

I believe that it is in our National interest to maintain a well-trained military, but that it does not need to be expended in conflicts that don't impinge on our shores. 

 

What we should be aiming for is firstly to get our forces expert in the use of what they need to do their jobs, and then train them to be able to train recruits. If ever the country needed to rapidly build up its forces, then the members who were already enlisted and trained up could take up the training of the newcomers.

 

There will be some members who must go into action immediately, but if there is a pool of qualified instructors, then it would take less time to train up recruits.

[nomadpete]

Our national defences require boosting.

We are proven to be vulnerable to cyber attack more than anything else.

Buying guns, submarines or fighter jets won't cut it. Modern warfare is mostly done by economic and IP methods. All it would take to bring a country to its knees, would be one successful hack into the banks or military.

[kgwilson]

Who is he trying to kid that buying billions worth of missiles, subs, jets etc will cut it. If we were attacked, they'd all be gone in the first day or 2. When the perceived adversary is also our largest customer & supplier with military might a hundred times our size and a population over 50 times ours how will anything like this make the slightest difference. I agree that only economic and intellectual property warfare will happen even while large nations continue to posture with ever more destructive weapons.

[old man emu]

5 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

only economic and intellectual property warfare will happen even while large nations continue to posture with ever more destructive weapons

Are you saying that the pence is mightier than the sword?

[willedoo]

Chinese warships sailing toward Australia to attack us is not how it will happen. If they want the place, they can just strangle us in a lot of ways without firing a shot. Buying air launched ship killing cruise missiles seems a waste of money.

[kgwilson]

Albert Einstein said " I don't know how WW3 will be fought but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones". The Global hysteria of creating ever more powerful weapons and armed forces is supposed to be a deterrent to ever actually using them. Now with Nuclear weapons in the hands of a lot of countries eventually some nutter despot will get hold of one and decide to have a go. I hope I am not around to see it. If Tumps Military advisors were as stupid as he is it probably would have already happened. Crikey he even wanted to Nuke Hurricanes!

[nomadpete]

I'm hoping that the aggressive posturing of western leaders (ours included) is all for the benefit of impressing our voters.

If it really is intended to impress any other nation, we're surely doomed.

For all the reasons that Kev listed above.

The Mouse That Roared was only a STORY!

[Marty_d]

10 hours ago, willedoo said:

Chinese warships sailing toward Australia to attack us is not how it will happen. If they want the place, they can just strangle us in a lot of ways without firing a shot. Buying air launched ship killing cruise missiles seems a waste of money.

Chinese generals have said years ago that the best way for China to win a fight is if the opposition doesn't realise the fight is happening (or words to that effect).

 

So yes if it comes to bullets and bombs then China's preferred method has already failed.

 

Mind you they've been showing some worrying signs of instability recently, the ludicrous pictures of money and a compass to "prove" that Australians were spies kind of missed the mark.  It's not 1960!!

[willedoo]

13 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Mind you they've been showing some worrying signs of instability recently, the ludicrous pictures of money and a compass to "prove" that Australians were spies kind of missed the mark.  It's not 1960!!

But then again, Marty, there's probably a lot we don't know about those cases. It's possible the compass was hidden in the heel of a shoe. And they could have had false moustaches for all we know. I think we're jumping the gun a bit.

[willedoo]

The situation in Victoria has prompted Scotty FM to jump ship, and he's now singing a different song. The Feds had previously joined Clive Palmer in his High Court challenge against Western Australia closing their border. Scotty, who has opposed border closures, is now saying that the States got it right and he got it wrong. It must be one of those 'I told you so' moments for the Premiers that did have the sense to shut their borders.

[willedoo]

Check out this galah. Wouldn't you think the Nation's leader would have some basic knowledge of flag etiquette. Particularly when representing the country overseas. The Japanese must be kacking themselves. Good one Scotty, what's next? Aussie flag dunny roll in the lodge perhaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by willedoo

[Bruce Tuncks]

Flag etiquette? Just check out the state flag of Hawaii and read the story behind it. Those hawaiian locals cared nothing for flags.

They flew a Union Jack ever since Cook left one. Cook didn't tell them he had taken possession of the place for England, which was clever of him and so he avoided being eaten. Then one day an american  sealing ship came and told the king he was flying an enemy flag. So these days the flag is the US stripes with a union jack where the stars were.

Much later, the then biggest tribal leader sold the country to the US in exchange for a sailing-ship gunboat, which he used to defeat the other tribes and become king. 

[old man emu]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

the then biggest tribal leader sold the country to the US in exchange for a sailing-ship gunboat, which he used to defeat the other tribes and become king

During the 1780s, and 1790s, chiefs often fought for power. After a series of battles that ended in 1795, all inhabited islands were subjugated under a single ruler, who became known as King Kamehameha the Great. The Hawaiian Islands were not really known to Europeans (including the Americans) until the late 1780's when Cook visited and claimed them for Britain. The Americans were mainly on the east coast of the North American continent and at that time were trying to establish their republic. At that time the Americans would not have been thinking about exchanging a gunboat with natives in the middle of the Pacific.

 

The incident involving some ships was the Olowalu Massacre,  a deadly massacre in 1790. In 1789, Captain Simon Metcalfe set out on a maritime fur trading mission with two ships: the large Eleanora, and the tender Fair American, a schooner under command of his son Thomas Humphrey Metcalfe. The Eleanora had arrived by January 1790, and met chief Kameʻeiamoku who boarded the ship to welcome them. An unknown action by the chief offended Simon Metcalfe, who had him flogged. This was to have severe consequences later. The Eleanora then sailed north to the island of Maui to trade and resupply. One night a small boat was stolen and the night watchman was killed. Captain Metcalfe fired his cannons into the village, and captured a few Hawaiians who told him the boat was taken by people from the village of Olowalu.

 

He sailed to Olowalu but found that boat had been broken up for its nails. Nails were treasured in ancient Hawaii, which lacked metal smelting technology. Metcalfe invited the villagers to meet the ship, indicating he wanted to trade with them. However, he had all the cannons loaded and ready on the side where he directed the canoes to approach. They opened fire, killing about one hundred Hawaiians, and wounded many others

 

[nomadpete]

So, OME, are you suggesting that in 1790 America first displayed its global diplomatic tactics? And they haven't changed much in 230 years.

[old man emu]

9 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

And they haven't changed much in 230 years.

Seems that way. And joint US-Australian operations post-WWII seems to have taught our once proud Diggers to use the same tactics.

[Yenn]

It is not the diggers that have embraced the Yanks. it is the politicians. They think it is better to cuddle up to the school bully than to show any sign of thinking for themselves. At the expence of our diggers.

Today on the radio we hear an Afghan bemoaning the fact that Afghans have died at the hands of our diggers. He failed tp mention that many more Afghans died at the hand of Afghan Taliban.

[old man emu]

The Yanks did very well out of WWII, thank you very much. Do you think that all the Lend Lease stuff they dumped around the world was simply done out of the goodness of their hearts? If you look at teh Lend Lease agreements, you will find that the Yanks always required repayment in cash or kind. That's how they got their military bases all around the world.