Bruce Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Yes he was at fault, but I reckon the worse culprit is our insane puritan culture. Just imagine a hypothetical society where the kind of stuff he did was praiseworthy and the kids were not considered as victims but as normal. This type of society possibly existed in ancient Greece and in the Royal Navy of 100 years ago. We have become more puritan in recent years and I don't know why When I was a kid in Alice Springs, there were a few characters around town ( one an Anglican official ) who were inclined towards boys. As far as I know, nothing much ever happened. If it did, why should the boy feel guilt and shame so much that he would commit suicide? That would be our culture doing that to them. Of cours the perp played his part, but it was only a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 DON'T TELL ANYONE, IT'S OUR SECRETE, AND THE DEVIL WILL GET YOU !. enough to scare the pants off any child. Preaying on the OUR vulnerable children. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 PELL Caused, by HIS ACTIONS, the death of his victim, If a car death it's called involuntary murder, His actions were entirely deliberate, WHERE'S his murder charge. ? spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I suspect he is innocent of the actual charges but guilty of all the cover ups and guilty of moral vacancy. He probably gets what is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 His accuser say "Penetration" I call that RAPE !. OF A MINOR. I suspect it's just the tip of the "iceberg" and lots more will start coming out of the "woodwork" shortly. Half a dozen in all those years. doutfull. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Can't wait til Tim Minchin writes a new song. "Come Home Cardinal Pell" is a cracker... Now that he's convicted, "Pell" rhymes with "Cell"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I suspect he is innocent of the actual charges but guilty of all the cover ups and guilty of moral vacancy. He probably gets what is due. My thoughts exactly I suspect that this conviction will on appeal be deemed "unsound" The first jury heard all the same arguments and did not come to this conclusion. I see shades of the Lindy Chamberlain case where the braying mob wanted her punished for not complying with what they thought should have been her attitude and demeanor and the justice system delivered accordingly. If he is as guilty of coverups etc as is generally believed then he certainly deserves punishment for those crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It seems that Ballarat was the headquarters of clerical paedophilia. The goings-on of the ordained clergy have been well publicised, but there was also a viper's nests at the Christian Brothers' schools in that city. Also it would seem that all Christian Brothers' boarding schools could pour out similar stories of brothers taking advantage of their dominant positions to play the role of "Uncle Ernie". The CBs all over the country, paedophile or not, engaged in other forms of child abuse - psychological abuse through the use of fear, and physical abuse through the use of corporal punishment. https://www.certifiedmale.com.au/wint96/leather.htm That abuse also scared boys for life. All the time they were preaching holiness and moral purity. I experienced a CB education from age nine to age almost eighteen. I saw my share of strap-happy teachers, both brothers and lay-men. On reflection, I now realise that that indoctrination shaped my life. It didn't set me up to handle the cruel reality of Life. Although I might not have been successful as many of my classmates, I can sleep at night knowing that I did no harm to anyone when I had power and authority. My kids thank me for the way my wife and I brought them up, and my grandson is showing the results of my son's following the way I brought him up. The CBs are a hypocritic lot. They seem to have no respect for the teachings of their God, and none at all for the laws of Man. At the moment I am grappling with a problem arising from their hypocrisy. I am arranging a reunion of my HSC class. One of my classmates is a CB. He has had an accusation of one count of child sex dealt with by the Court, and has been found "Not Guilty". There are no suggestions that he ever was involved in more similar acts. Now the CBs have banned him from attending the reunion. This is because another classmate blew the whistle on his invitation to the reunion. The irony is that recently I was having a drink with him and other classmates. It seems that he was not banned from attending that gathering. I must say that I was taught by many fine, upstanding men of God. No one ever tried anything on with me. Perhaps I should sue the CBs for making me feel ugly and unwanted. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I was a boarding "guest" of the C brothers in NZ from '62 to '68 and while discipline was administered ( in hindsight) with excessive harshness I was aware of no sexual exploitation. Apart from one Irish the rest of the staff were Australian and presumably at one time or another served with the perpertrators of sundry evils in other institutions. Further more at a re union 40 years later none of my contempories when questioned could recollect any of those horrendous behaviours that have characterised so many CB institutions in Australia and Ireland at our school. I guess my cohort must have been like OME ugly and unwanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I was an innocent 8yr old living in a small construction town in the Snowy Mtns. I had a strange fascination with the mechanics of moving film. A visiting catholic priest held a picture show in the community hall. Some of my school peers were RC and had come from Eaglehawk, another construction hamlet on the Eucumbene dam. They had a catholic primary school and this wretch was known to them. In a "harmless jape" they informed me that if i stayed back and helped him pack up he would perhaps "give me a treat". (It is too long ago to recall what the form of words were). Long story short he enticed me onto his lap and forced my hand onto his erect penis. I freaked out and breaking away fled towards home. I am not of a mind to "give these arseholes any benefit of doubt'. Not being a legal expert I am required to put my faith in the established legal process. Our system relies on peoples' faith in that system. I am disgusted that prominent politicians and others of high standing in the community should seek to rubbish this essential crux of the law. Some are members of the legal profession FFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It's somewhat concerning when PUBLIC and well known, figures openly show CONTEMPT for the Law processes of the Land and have done nothing about it, ever, yet say the verdict is wrong... If WE don't have any faith in the Law what are we left with? Howard (like many in politics ) is an ex Lawyer. .The Vatican are going to conduct their own enquiry. One could say they have a vested Interest to protect the Church above all else which is exactly what they have done in the past as well as keeping their despicable conduct under wraps. Perhaps there is a change happening there with the Pope. Certainly vilifying the victims must cease..They got treated doubly bad when they reported it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 OK here is my take on this (for what it is worth) Pell is definitely not a person I admire. Exhibit A George Pell: Ridsdale abuse 'wasn't of much interest to me' The people who are expressing doubt are suggesting that the scenario presented seems unlikely. The points I have seen presented in defence are that it is the word of one person and a person who has since died who when asked by his mother said he had not been abused. My take is this We know that it takes many years for people to admit that this has happened to them and that not immediately reporting abuse does not mean that it did not happen. The suggestion that only a mad man would perform these acts in a location where they could be easily be discovered. An alternative interpretation could be that it would not be the end of the world if a colleague were to walk in. Oh dear because of his robes. he could not get it out, What so he could not take a leak? The complainant is lying. To what end? As far as I can tell there is not a claim for money from this person. In fact, according to the book by Louise Milligan, who interviewed this person extensively, they kept quiet about these events until the death of another victim. After this time they claim that they thought they owed it to the person who kept silent. It is possible that this person in the distant future may receive some compensation but this is a very long and arduous way to make some money. I am not sure I can believe that this man is a greedy villain. Andrew Bolt, Miranda Divine and John Howard and a few others think that Pell is a great guy and they can't accept that he could have committed such an offence. Of course, we all believe that our friends and family are beyond reproach, it is human nature and understandable. If we are ignoring the fact that the police, public prosecutor. judge and jury are convinced and we want to consider what is likely, we must look at whether or not there is a precedent for a Catholic clergyman to commit such an offence. I mean has this EVER happened before? Remember Pell accompanying Gerald Ridsdale to court? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Pells lawyer Robert Richter trivialised the issue by calling His crimes as "no more than a plain vanilla sexual penetration case". No 13 year old kid that has been sexually abused deserves that sort of demeaning statement. He has since apologised but he said it none the less. I think it displays some of HIS (Richters) character. I think that you would have to be privy to the details of the case to be able to make judgement. Those that were did and he was found guilty. Many older devout catholics prefer to believe what they think and not the evidence presented. The problem now is that how will they find a jury capable of making an unbiased decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 ""no more than a plain vanilla sexual " Would this be " Pedophile talk". as I, nor people I've ask the meaning of it, have even heard of this word. Perhaps the police should investigate that lawyer. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Spacey, You obviously don't move in the right circles. It's a term used by the Double Soy Latte crowd. Conventional sex - Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Spacey,You obviously don't move in the right circles. It's a term used by the Double Soy Latte crowd. Conventional sex - Wikipedia I was going to fill in spacesailor but I did not want to incriminate myself also I think I can hear Mrs Octave in the bedroom cracking the whip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Which shade of grey is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I was going to fill in spacesailor but I did not want to incriminate myself also I think I can hear Mrs Octave in the bedroom cracking the whip Who's she cracking the whip on if you're out posting on the internet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Marty, practice makes perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Marty, practice makes perfect! indeed it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 He was in bed with his iPad, which is connected to his wifi. He wanted to watch flying videos on Youtube, but Mrs Octave was dominating what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 As I understand, the appeal hinges on the deinal by the trial judge of the submission of "evidence" the defence cousel had commissioned - which was an animated depiction of the movements of Pell, his clergy at the time - such that it could be shown that it was impossible for at least one of the acts to be performed without being in front of his flock. It was, AIUI, dismissed on the grounds of something along the lines it would lead the jury rather than present objective evidence - I am not entirely sure though... Pells lawyer Robert Richter trivialised the issue by calling His crimes as "no more than a plain vanilla sexual penetration case". No 13 year old kid that has been sexually abused deserves that sort of demeaning statement. He has since apologised but he said it none the less. I think it displays some of HIS (Richters) character. I think that you would have to be privy to the details of the case to be able to make judgement. Those that were did and he was found guilty. Many older devout catholics prefer to believe what they think and not the evidence presented. The problem now is that how will they find a jury capable of making an unbiased decision. Let him take it unwillingly up the Khyber pass and then state it is a simple case of penetration - he is not sorry - he was demeaning the importance of the case in the hope of finally achieveing a favourable outcome for his client. Watching the sentencing video here: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/choirboy-welcomes-sentence-say-pell-s-appeal-still-hangs-over-him-20190313-p513uj.html, one has to question - for penetration of a 13 year old boy - 4 years! WTF... Looks like the judiciary agree with Richter's assesment. There was a dodgy bloke in my local soccer club - wasn't even a coach - used to drive from Frankston all the way to Fawkner to be, effectively a ball boy and match day chauffer.. I think to get his hands on the boys' balls. It's not just the religious sectors that have their issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Having watched the entire sentencing on TV, the penetration was oral, not anal, according to the judge. Cardinal Pell (he is still that until the Pope sacks him) held the boys head in his crotch, before handling the boys genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 13 year old boy forcibly having someone’s penis in his mouth - 4 years is still too light - especially for someone abusing a position of trust and power. Would be interesting to get the lawyers take on them having to forcibly give someone a BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I heard some of the sentencing. Judge seemed thorough and fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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