Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[Bruce]

There are different modes of deterioration for lead-acid. A big one is debris on the bottom shorting out the plates, and this is where you are right Nev.

 

But another mode is where the cells have been "sulphated" and this is able to be partially reversed by chemicals. I have had good results from rejuvenator chemicals and right now they have at least delayed the need for a new battery , ( although my wife disagrees and thinks I'm a cheapskate, a label which I wear proudly)

 

What if the supercaps plus the old battery work well?

 

 

[facthunter]

I've desulphated batteries and done all that If the battery is fairly new and if you do it carefully you get results "sometimes". I don't use Epsom salts or any chemicals, but your time is money and in a modern car a proper voltage battery is a necessity and taking them in and out and resetting the codes takes time. If they are over 18 months old they aren't worth wasting time on them at about $160 each. particularly if you run diesels that have high starting Amps needs. and place much value on reliability. Keeping them fully, but not overcharged is one of the best ways to get full life . The newer AGM low maintenance batteries are pretty good.. Don't ever charge them at a high rate or over charge them.. The ones that weigh the most have the most lead in them.. (naturally). and usually give the best service..Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I prefer the "Flooded batteries" as most of my AGM when disassembled have the top of the plates corroded away, (the piece that connects all the grids)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

I paid 11 dollars at Jaycar for some battery rejuvenator, which was cadmium sulphate. Now you tell me epsom salts ( Magnesium sulphate) would have worked as well and been cheaper. This is devastating news for a cheapskate.

 

My problem is that I don't know enough chemistry. If you google up epsom salts, you will find that it cures everything from batteries to splinters... how come I never knew that?

 

I used to use nickle-cadmium batteries and so I guess this is why I bought the Jaycar stuff, thinking cadmium must be good for batteries. Silly huh.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...If you google up epsom salts, you will find that it cures everything from batteries to splinters... how come I never knew that?...

I've spent time in a float tank full of Epsom salts. Soft music, weightless, dark and warm. You can go to sleep and not drown 'cos it's so dense you float high.

 

 

[Bruce]

I didn't know that either old K . Hope you came out of that bath with your batteries charged.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I never did understand how Epsom salts could recharge my batteries.

 

What works for me is - taking a bottle of red and some snags down to our covered deck beside the dam, lighting a nice fire and consuming medicinal amounts of red wine whilst contemplating sunset and waiting for BBQ coals to form.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Old K

 

Hope you don't roll over, onto your tummy while asleep!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not recommending Epsom Salts to FIX batteries. I think basically you are wasting your time .Any impurity makes batteries self discharge . Pure water and pure acid is best as well as lead with no impurity. The paste in the lead plate grid is Lead peroxide. Cheaper than lead and porous (more area =more current) Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Well I finally got the capacitors and fitted them. 6 only 500 Farads in series to get 83 Farads. These can supply 83 amps for 3 seconds while discharging from 12 volts down to 9 volts ( the battery voltage during cranking is 9 volts).

 

The Falcon starts fine now. It had stopped starting at all till I put the cadmium sulphate stuff in, then it did start but not very well, you could tell the battery was only just providing enough amps.

 

So now it has the old battery plus $11 worth of chemicals plus $60 worth of capacitors. And working like it had a new battery.

 

I wonder how long this will last?

 

 

[facthunter]

Next week when you dump the battery, how are you going to get rid of the CADMIUM environmentally safely? It's one of the most problematic of the heavy metals. You shouldn't even be able to buy that stuff without a permit. Even Airlines can't plate with it . They've had to use alternative metals for years, Like zinc -nickel...Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I didn't know cadmium was so bad Nev. Worse than lead huh.

 

And I take your point about the old battery lasting a week... I hope it goes longer than that.. Earlier today I was in supercheaps and noticed a new battery for the falcon was more like $200. It would be good to delay that for a while.

 

Apparently the first new car without a lead-acid is a Porsch, on sale now. I guess it has a LiFe battery plus the electronics to look after the battery automatically.

 

How about a hobbyking LiFe for $100 plus the capacitors for $60 ? This should give 300 amps for cranking and still be cheaper than a new lead-acid. A lot lighter too, maybe the first use of such a setup should be for an aircraft?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Bruce! Now that's an idea worth money.

 

[ATTACH]49095._xfImport[/ATTACH] My idea's don't make the grade but for-fill a requirement,

 

Like using your finger's (in the plug-hole) to make the vacuum to draw up the fuel of a dry engine.

 

Just a chopped off spark-plug end and added a marble to make a valve, cap it to make your engine a compressor,( already done commercially).

 

spacesailor

 

[Marty_d]

Getting back to electric cars - in the last two days here in Yorkshire I've seen 3 Tesla Model S's. Yes I know there's a lot of cars over here (and they're probably outnumbered 1000 to 1 by gas-guzzling Range Rovers) - but it's still encouraging.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Marty does this mean you'll soon be posting with a funny accent?

 

 

[facthunter]

Some Matchless WD CO model bikes had Lithium batteries in WW2. That's over 70 years ago. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

They were trying to reduce weight of the machine. Even the affected Machine numbers are documented in the records..Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I sure didn't know that Nev. We think of lithium batteries as new things, but it was the requirements of laptop computers which made them become viable again.

 

Why didn't they become more common on motorbikes ( and aeroplanes) I wonder.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty does this mean you'll soon be posting with a funny accent?

Eeee bah gum! Trooble at mill...

 

Seriously I think the A380 pilot flying the last leg (Dubai - Manchester) was on L plates. We touched down with NO wind (the sock was as limp as a politician's promise) - but yet the thing was yawing from side to side like he thought the damn thing was pedal powered.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cost I would expect, Bruce. Perhaps vibration killed them. It still wrecks the lead acid ones. Older type Non AGM. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Longer than one week Nev. After nearly a month, the car is starting just fine with the old battery plus the chemicals plus the capacitors.

 

If it goes another 11 months it will be a financial win.

 

A mate of mine who thinks I am silly has made me borrow his "jump start" case, which he bought from supercheap. It contains a lithium battery and leads and is surprisingly light. So far I haven't needed it.

 

 

[facthunter]

Modern engine management systems don't like battery voltage excursions. I consider most of "revive old batteries" to be a con.. Sulphating of a younger battery can sometimes be rectified but the degeneration and swelling of the plates is terminal. A battery deteriorated like that is completely unreliable. I have had a large capacity tractor battery destroy itself with a melt down while I was working it . Pretty unsafe thing to happen. No warning.. Heavy chemical contamination.+ outrageous heat. RELIABILITY is important and you can damage your car. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

In other words, Nev, you save a few bob by extending the life of a crook battery, but do major damage to your car's EMS.

 

To protect modern electronics, for years I've carried special "no spike" jumper leads in my car, but rarely needed them.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not just concerned with the starting. When I use jumper leads I leave the other vehicle's engine running at a charge rate, (Bit above idle) for a while but a dud battery may not take a reasonable charge rate. I keep the other engine running in any case. The low resistance of a good condition battery aids/ helps to prevent overvolting.. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Just saw this today.

 

Check out this electric car. The Solo from Electra Meccanica

 

Seems pretty damn sensible to me - when millions of people commute with just one person in the car, why not make a single seat car. Range of 100 miles (160km) which is enough for most commutes, 3 hours to charge from 220v, good performance and reasonable price tag of US $15,500.