GRIPES

[rgmwa]

Good idea. They pay for what will ultimately benefit them and you keep your pension money. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

6 hours ago, Marty_d said:

I have always considered life insurance a scam.

As you say Peter, if you've been paying premiums for 45 years and you've worked out you could still save the amount of the payout in 7 years, imagine how much you would have now if you'd never paid them anything.

I understand this point of view, but that is not what life insurance is for. It is not an investment (although admittedly, it is often sold as an investment or, I think in Aus, term life policies have an investment component - but even then, it is not really a good investment). 

 

It is designed to cover your lost ones in your younger periods of life, when you have debt and possibly a young family, should you aas the income earner die (usually unexpectedly).  It is designed to provide the cash benefit for them to pay off the debt and maybe live off an annuity to approximate lost income. Again, it is a premium on the risk they have to payout; in the same way you pay your car insurance but if you never have a crash, you don't get the market value of your car when you hang up you licence, nor do you get some payout at the end. 

 

In itself, it is not a scam, but it is fair to say they way it is marketed to become a scam.  And that is because it is marketed as an investment to payout on a foreseeable death when it is likely no one needs the money, rather than the unforeseen risk of an early death. 

 

From your perspective, Peter, the above is good advice if it guarantees a payout on  your reasonably foreseeable death (ie. not accidental).. May want to check the policy to be sure.. because it will be a big disappointment if the policy excludes non-accidental death. 

 

Although too late for yourself, the normal advice would be to set up a diminishing value insurance policy that reduces over time in accordance with your reduction in debt (mortgage) over time.. If you remortgage or take on more debt your policy should allow you to adjust the payout (and the premium will adjust accordingly). In theory, as the payout reduces, the premium reduces as well... and when the mortgage is paid off, there may be a residual payout available to cover creating an annuity for income. 

 

You should use the reducing premiums to sink into proper investments where you can allocate to funds that more meet your investment needs. That has no of the exclusions of a life insurance policy and its payout is usually guaranteed (if its performance isn't - i.e. there is usually something left even if it was a bad investment). 

 

 

[old man emu]

Why was only one company prepared to insure a young pilot? Because their perceived risk of a claim was higher than for the average non-pilot of the same age. The company calculated its risk and from that set an amount for the premium. Whether or not that premium amount changes over the years depends mainly on the increasing age of the client.

 

There are two classes of product that are sold by insurance companies. The first is "insurance". This product returns an agreed sum to the insurer if, and only if, an specified event occurs. Your house, car and CTP policies are insurance policies. These policies have a fixed period for which loss from a stated event occurs. There are so many events that an be insured against that I could not hope to list them all here. However there is another type of product.

 

The other product is "assurance". This is a product that pays out for a specific reason based on the life of the insured. One product is "Whole of Life". With this type of product, the insurer agrees to pay a set amount upon the death of the insured. Since this product will have a life of many years, the premiums are based on the expected life span of the insured and the sum to be paid out. Basically, teh insurer hopes that the insured will live to an old age, by which time the total of premiums will equal the amount insured. The insurer takes a hit if the insured dies young. Meanwhile, the insurer is receiving money regularly which can be invested and the profits of those investments taken by the insurer. Assurance policies can also be taken out by companies on the lives of employees whose death would adversely affect the company's operations

 

A similar product is an Endowment" policy. This type of policy is an agreement to pay the insured an agreed amount at the end of a specified period, say ten to twenty years. The annual premium is simply the amount agreed upon divided by the number of years. There is also a bit tacked on to cover a death benefit if the insured dies within the period.  This type of policy was popular with grandparents to provide a gift to grandchildren when th child reached adulthood.

 

Superannuation policies are a sort of assurance policy in which the premium mainly goes into investment, but there is a bit used for death and disability events. The proceds of superannuation are paid out as a lump sum which can be used to puchase an annuity (pension), or not. But most of you are well aware of that.

 

 

[octave]

On 30/07/2026 at 1:01 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

I didn't suggest concealing it.. but if people honestly didn't know they are unwittingly a British citizen, it will be a non issue.. 

 

He does know that he has British citizenship by inheritance; if asked, he would have to answer truthfully.  

 

On 30/07/2026 at 1:01 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

So, on applying foe the ETA, a refusal would be provided if they knew one was a citizen if the applicant did not.

So a trip for my son to the UK would involve him, in your opinion applying for an ETA and if that is refused then he would have to start the onerous process of applying for a UK passport, which in his case would involve all sorts of documents including my and my wife's birth certificates and more.

 

On 30/07/2026 at 1:01 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

Apparently Aussies now need a UK ETA or similar  as when I presented my Aus passport at the Melbourne

Yes Aussie who do not hold British citizenship.  I would need a British Passport to travel to England and my son would require a  UK passport an NZ passport, and if he were to spend a few days in Aus would require an Aus passport as well, a total of about $700 worth.

 

You seem to imply my gripe is a little petty or a "storm in a teacup" simply because he may be able to travel in the UK without giving away the fact that he is also a UK citizen.

 

Whilst many people may be doing this real people are being affected.

 

UK passport changes leave Australians with dual citizenship scrambling before border rules kick in

 

Teenage Girl Spends 6 Weeks Stuck Abroad Due to New Passport Rule, Her Dad Says

 

More than a million Brits risk being caught out by new passport rule launched this year – with kids stranded abroad

 

The common theme

Most of these people were already British citizens. Their mistake wasn't failing to obtain citizenship—it was assuming they could continue travelling on their other passport as they had done previously.

The February 2026 changes caught many people because:

• they had never applied for a British passport,
• they didn't realise their children automatically held British citizenship,
• or they had travelled for years using only their Australian, American or European passport.

The UK Home Office has stated that from 25 February 2026, British dual nationals generally must travel with a valid British passport (or, in limited cases, a passport containing a Certificate of Entitlement), otherwise they risk being refused boarding.

Given your earlier questions about travelling on an Australian passport, these examples illustrate that the airlines are enforcing the rule before passengers even reach the UK border.

 

On 30/07/2026 at 1:01 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

Australia has had this requirement for time immemorial so I don't see the issue. It is a cost of multiple citizenship.

Yes, I am aware of that. My gripe is not about the UK but the need for 3 passports .   There simply must a better way. 

 

Sorry if you think I am it is in your words "It's mountain out of molehill stuff.." but it came as news to me and going by newspaper reports IT IS catching people out

[Jerry_Atrick]

58 minutes ago, octave said:

He does know that he has British citizenship by inheritance; if asked, he would have to answer truthfully.  

Yep.. I was referring to people who don't know they have British citizenship.. There is no need to trawl through family history to work it out. 

 

58 minutes ago, octave said:

So a trip for my son to the UK would involve him, in your opinion applying for an ETA and if that is refused then he would have to start the onerous process of applying for a UK passport, which in his case would involve all sorts of documents including my and my wife's birth certificates and more.

I had exactly the same issue with my son 20 years ago when travelling to  Australia -  and it was a stress I didn't need as my father was imminently dying at the time. I don't see the problem of the UK requiring it if Australia does. That is my point. 

 

It became a problem because it was a recent requirement and people didn't know about it and were caught out.

 

Is it a faff? Yes. Most people plan their trips in advance and have plenty of time to get it. And it is a darned sight cheaper than the Aussie one, as well. But in the scheme of things, it is a molehill. 

Edited 2 minutes ago by Jerry_Atrick