Is our 2 party system just a con?

[Siso]

Gina may support ON a lot but they are all owned by someone, to the extent they get jobs after politics in fields they use to oversee. ON is not special, just gets a bit more attention because the major partys are feeling a bit threatened.

[facthunter]

Hanson is on record saying that "the Speaker of the Senate has NO CONTROL over HER." Is THAT OK? What a great example to set. She thinks she can get away with anything.. Nev

[Marty_d]

Well this will help them turn the ship around...  😂 ABC Live blog says Tony Abbott is positioning himself to be the next president of the Liberal party.

 

Kind of like hiring Putin to be a conflict mediator, or Trump to bring honesty back to politics.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-05-07/federal-politics-live-blog-early-childcare-commission/106651090

[onetrack]

Just goes to show, what a bunch of out-of-touch has-beens, the Liberal Party has become.

[facthunter]

When they ONLY talk only amongst themselves they don't come up with any NEW ideas.  One of the Major Causes of the Libs being where they are Now would be Tony Abbott. This would have to Be the Ultimate attempt to flog a Dead Horse.  He's been constantly trying  a find a Raison d etre since he Lost his own  seat.( Bad sign). Peta Credlin was HIS "Brain" then. His true Loyalty LIES back in England but he didn't have any success there. IF you caused a Mess surely you would  HAVE to rule yourself out as being the One to FIX it. PLUS He's none the wiser He has not improved with AGE.. As long as he is Australina he will get the Pension .Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Well the ISIS brides will get the pension as well when they reach 67, and they won't have improved with age either. The two party ALP and Coalition system is on it's last legs, we're all seeing them for what they really are, ideological dictators, telling everyone else to sit down and shut up.

 

They rely solely on preference voting, not primary votes, to win seats. As such, all squares must be marked for votes to be formal. So the entire voting system is based on preferences, otherwise the system fails to work. Being mandatory to mark every square is dictatorship. Fill them all out, or your vote won't count.

[facthunter]

Rave on.  That's all it sounds like.  You are NOT  accurate either.  Tony wants to Be President of a Political party, and my comment is made in that context. You just make things up, frequently. There's nothing corrupt about a Preferential system in essence either.. Some countries have First past the Post but is it suitable where a Lot of Candidates are Listed? I don't Know but it certainly doesn't keep ME awake at Night whereas having Abbot in any position of POWER again would be Nightmarish. . Most Politicians accept the Choice of the Voters. Libs have been dummy  spitting rather than doing something about the Policies that saw them Kicked out convincingly. Their ranks are Unsafe for Women to start with. A bad sign.  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

We're at the beginning of a transitional period, questioning whether we should continue with ALP and Coalition ideological policy making and vote chasing. It's all becoming very damaging to Australia. We've lost car manufacturing. The cancellation of Inland Rail, etc, etc.

 

We're getting no where.

[Kyle Communications]

Our preferential voting system is NOT democratic..thats the problem.

It was done to make sure all votes counted but its faulty.

We need the same compulsory voting to make sure everyone does make a choice and it needs to be First past the post. Then you truly get the majority of the will of the people. The more parties you have though can make this problematic because you can of course have 5 parties and the vote can thin out and you could end up governing on 21% of the vote if all the votes were roughly the same...BUT in this case you then have to negotiate with other parties to get a majority if you want a policy implemented.

if there becomes a stalemate then on getting a policy through there needs to be a mechanism for the general populous to have their vote on that particular issue. Its sort of when supply is blocked you dont sack the government you go to the people to decide. This is more democratic than the shitshow we have now

 

Edited Thursday at 06:48 AM by Kyle Communications

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Kyle Communications said:

We need the same compulsory voting to make sure everyone does make a choice and it needs to be First past the post.

Well, we do have compulsory voting, and that's good. Everyone gets to make a choice. That's good. First past the post? Dunno, Just look at the primary votes in recent elections. It is very rare that a candidate gets more than 50% +1. At least with preferential voting one can indicate that which candidate you really don't want, and which candidates one thinks are better than the others. 

[facthunter]

The Inland rail still Goes to Parkes. Is it Possible that It was Found to Be Uneconomic before it was finished?   IF so what is the right thing to do? Press on regardless?? It was Abbot and Hockey that Unceremoniously Kicked the Car Companies out.   Both are NOT the same and never were, Anyhow we DONT now have a 2 Party system. If you think so, think again and remove your blinkers. The UNHOLY  Alliance between the Libs and NATS was a major contributor to where we are at NOW. Nats represent Coal and Gas, and corrupt deals on the Darling River, NOT small Farmers. Nev

[onetrack]

Show me the country that has "first past the post" voting, and which has a far superior style of Govt to the one we have here in Australia?

 

FPP voting is highly susceptible to gerrymandering due to unfair electoral boundary distributions. This is the reason why Trump and the Republicans are seeking to alter electoral boundaries in many U.S. States to favour the Republicans. In FPP voting, smaller parties get no representation at all. The Republicans want the poor, the blacks, and Democrat voters to have no say in what they want to do, and to have no power to oust any Republican Govt. It's gerrymandering at its best.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

 

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

If any electorate has only two candidates running, it then becomes first past the post.

[facthunter]

ZED for Effort there or ZEE in your favourite Country. Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

So you agree that first past the post is ok? But would you still agree if the candidate who won was a One Nation candidate, you wouldn't condemn that candidate for winning in a first past the post competition.

[Kyle Communications]

No not at all.....you have to concede that what ever horse wins the race is the winner no matter how many are in the race. Its a fact. You are talking politics not democracy of numbers

The difference is that there was a mojority group that have voted for that candidate than any other. To me thats a majority of people

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Onetrack .... the gerrymander system is well and truely envoked in the preferential system already. Look at sydney electorates like Burkes one....its gerrymandered by race as a lot of them are..Benelong is another. A lot of electorates are bordered to encompass majority ethnic groups

[nomadpete]

I think gerrymandering is a separate issue. The don't have preferential voting in US but still squabble about gerrymandering.

[red750]

With first past the post in a multi candidate electorate, depending on the number of candidates, the winner could win with only 30% of the first preferences. That means that 70% of voters didn't want that candidate. Don't they have the right to say "OK,  X didn't win, but I don't want Z, I'd prefer Y.

[old man emu]

It is interesting that there are two famous books dealing with the bad sides of the human nature of group control, Animal Farm by George Orwell and Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

[Kyle Communications]

1 hour ago, red750 said:

With first past the post in a multi candidate electorate, depending on the number of candidates, the winner could win with only 30% of the first preferences. That means that 70% of voters didn't want that candidate. Don't they have the right to say "OK,  X didn't win, but I don't want Z, I'd prefer Y.

hahahha well you explain to me why the Labor government is governing with 34% of the primary vote but has 90+ seats in the parliment....this is what pref voting does.

[facthunter]

It HAS been explained Kyle.  You are Clutching at straws.  The People have voted in the POLL which counts and MOST accept that in this Country  and no Lives are Lost. Nev

[Kyle Communications]

The pref system will work if everyone who voted actually used their brain and cast their preferentials to as they actually want them done.

The problem is most voters are sheep and only mark their papers as per the handouts given by the partys. This of course is how that party want YOU to vote NOT what you should vote. You should vote the way you want to the outcome NOT what some dick in a political party wants you to vote.

In my opinion this is what makes the system flawed because way more than 50% of the voters just copy what the party voting slip tells them.

Thats not clutching at straws Nev those are just the facts.

 

This voting system is designed so that the sheep in the population just follow each other over the cliff

 

[octave]

I am not sure that more than 50 percent of voters follow how to vote cards  I am the go today so I have not thoroughly read this article but here is a link. 

 

https://antonygreen.com.au/do-how-to-votes-matter-evidence-from-the-2022-sa-election/

 

The Victorian and South Australian Electoral Commissions regularly analyse ballot papers and have determined that around 40% of major party voters complete their ballot paper with their preferred party’s HTV preference sequence. The proportion following HTVs is even lower for minor parties and independents. The difference in follow rate is largely related to the proportion of voters who receive the HTV for a particular party or candidate. Obviously the probability of a voter copying a HTV recommendation is higher if they receive a HTV than if they don’t.

Edited 1 hour ago by octave

[facthunter]

I think it's lemmings that followed each other over a cliff due to Overpopulation pressures. Just Because People take a How to vote sheet doesn't mean they follow it. I often take one to see who the Baddies Preference and I put their Preferred ones LAST.  Psst you are Obviously angry but another Opportunity to vote will be available and that's a good thing. Lots of Places don't get that chance. Be grateful for that... and I Love your Work. Nev

Edited 1 hour ago by facthunter