Aussie Federal election 2025

[facthunter]

Australia is not very densely Populated but sometimes I wonder. We choose to send Electricity to a lot of remote Places. Nev

[Siso]

Australia should be in the top 3 with our resources. have a look where we were in 2000  https://www.comparethemarket.com.au/energy/features/changes-in-electricity-prices-globally/

 

Steam = reliability and stability if it is not to old and well maintained. Solar is reliable as it turns off reliably every night😁

 

Solar loses efficiency the hotter it is. Older turbines shut off above 40 degrees. Newer ones  start to constrain themselves from 35 degrees(can't remeber exact temp and shut off at about 43 dgrees. It isn't just steam plants. GT's lose a bit as well as it gets hotter.

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Siso said:

All the voltage regulators we are seeing on the power lines around the country that weren't needed when we had synchronous generation.

Not sure what you are referring to.

The grid is totally synchronous.

And it is, for all sources of generation.

[Siso]

5 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Not sure what you are referring to.

The grid is totally synchronous.

And it is, for all sources of generation.

We are seeing some these hanging under the smaller transmission lines around the midnorth of SA. Right in the middle of Wind turbine country.  https://www.energyknowledgebase.com/topics/voltage-regulator.asp The grid is synchronous but WTG's aren't. The earlier ones were just large squirrel cage motors over driven hooked straight to the grid. The higher percentage of synchronous generators kept the frequency stable.(Vestas V82 1.65MW) Newer turbines have full  or partial inverters. Not so common now but google DFIG wind turbine generator. The stator is connected directly to the grid, the inverter connects to the rotor and artificially moves the magnetic field around to give 50 Hz at the stator. Once it gets above 3/4 power, the rotor starts generating as well and this goes through the inverter the other way and gets put back on the grid. Vestas V90 3MW, V80 (2 MW). Someone was smoking some pretty wild sht. Gas, coal and nuclear run at the exact speed to get the right frequency. 3000, 1500 RPM in Australia depending the number of poles in the generator. The weight of these rotating generators and turbines are what give a traditional grid its inertia.

[nomadpete]

Siso, the majority of wind turbines are mechanically synchronised to the grid.

 

So they actually have some inertia similar to steam turbines. That is why they all turn at exactly the same speed (unless they are feathered).

 

Yes, the latest ones use inverters, which can instantly electronically adjust their phase to match the grid frequency. Just like the household solar grid feed inverters.

 

A 'poles & wires' distribution system might have an automated voltage regulator (transformer tap adjustment). That is not related to phase or frequency synchronisation.

[nomadpete]

10 minutes ago, Siso said:

The weight of these rotating generators and turbines are what give a traditional grid its inertia.

That inertia is actually part of a synchronisation problem.

 

Consider the differences between all those spinning weights. The rate of recovery from an upset will be radically different depending on the mass. For instance a Gas turbine is lightweight and slows suddenly in response to a sudden load. However the Wivenhoe hydro turbine will hold up better with it's 300 tonne spinning mass. Precise rotational synchronising is comparitively erratic.

 

In comparison, an inverter will wind up or down in milliseconds - so actually the system synchronisation should improve when we replace those steam or gas turbines with electronic generators.

[facthunter]

Inertia in separate rotors wouldn't help back EMF has almost limitless effect and tends to hold things in Synch.. The synching has to be spot on. The Boeing B727 is a synchronous system including Ground Power. APU and all engines The engine generators are driven by CSD's that hold a constant rpm over a wide range of engine rpms Before putting an extra Gen on Line you have to flick the switch at exactly the right time Indicated by a blinking white light which is most Intense when you are most out of synch. Guess when you have to select the switch ON... Nev

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Before putting an extra Gen on Line you have to flick the switch at exactly the right time Indicated by a blinking white light which is most Intense when you are most out of synch. Guess when you have to select the switch ON.

A simply automated switch does exactly that to put a half a million horsepower steam turbine, in a power station "ON LINE" .

 

However, at any time, the grid load is constantly erratic. So all these assorted spinning inertias are forever struggling to keep rotationally locked. Any resulting phase lag or lead will result in instant disconnection from grid. That causes all renaining generators to hunt to restore their synchronisation. The grid counts the number of cycles per day and adjusts the frequency so that all synchronous clocks (remember them?) are accurate.

 

However, the 2025 election has nothing requiring all this accuracy.

 

Back to topic.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:43 AM by nomadpete
there is no sin in synchronous

[onetrack]

We've been having discussions with a number of local youngsters, and how they're going to vote. The word is, that young voters are going have a major impact on this election.

 

Hardly without much variation, every one of the youngsters we spoke to, expressed great concern about the altering climate, increased pollution, and general environmental destruction - and they nearly all said they were going to vote Green or Labor.

 

I think the Federal Conservatives are going to get a shock when their much-vaunted swing to them, turns out exactly the same as the recent W.A. election - a slight swing to the Conservative parties, but not enough to make a measurable dent in Labors hold on Government.

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/federal-election-2025-yougov-poll-predicts-labor-majority-coalition-losing-seats/5a0ccacb-f753-4c5e-bd01-de9243d495c8

 

Edited Thursday at 10:53 AM by onetrack
found the latest polling, which is even more startling.....

[Marty_d]

Polls have got it wrong too often for me to trust them.  Apparently Mutton is also targeting marginal seats where there is the greatest discontent with cost of living.  

 

My biggest hope is for Labor to be returned as a minority government so they have to deal with the crossbench.  In my opinion that leads to better government than having a whopping majority and being able to do whatever you please - that way leads to autocracy.

 

Of course, if I had to choose between Labor winning with a majority and LNP winning, I'd take number 1.

[spacesailor]

My daughter wants me to vote for Pauline Hansons , One Nation party .

But I say no chance of becoming government.  So , Labor it is . At least my preferences won't go to Dutton,  Nat-Lib party .

I tried to see were the preferences go  up it seems well hidden. 

spacesailor

[rgmwa]

Of our four kids, all now in their late 30's and early 40's, only our son (the youngest) is well informed about what's going on in the world in general and will vote Labor. The three girls don't listen to or watch the news and know very little about what's happening in the world generally. If something doesn't affect them directly they're not interested. The youngest girl said she will turn up to vote but leave her voting slip blank because she doesn't know enough about any party to make a decision. I guess that's fair enough. The other two asked me who they should vote for as they have no idea. I'm not sure how typical they are of the current generation.

[nomadpete]

Unfortunately there are many peoply who don't have the ability to get their heads around the complexities of politics.

There is so much verbal bs, tempered by so much history of actual actions by partys and individuals, that they give up trying to think about it.

Sadly these folk are swung by the most recent bs.

[Siso]

The early turbines where connected to the grid directly but had slippage like an induction motor. When they went faster than synchronous they were a generator, when they went slower they were a motor. some of the smaller ones even had a motor mode. The newer turbines are full inverter like your home solar panels. The GT we have at work has a rotor weight of over 150 tonnes plus the weight of the generator rotor. This is more that the weight of a 4.5MW wtg Nacelle. These turbines follow the frequency of the grid. If the grid drops to much the turbines drops off. See 2016 SA blackout was caused by 450MW of wind not being able to ride through the grid drops caused by the earth faults at the transmission towers. But what would I know, only worked with them for 12 years.

[ClintonB]

This sums up my thoughts on this election .

[old man emu]

I think that this election is being influenced by two things: the Trump effect and the arrival of the younger generation at the polling booths.

 

We have just gone through all the carrying on from the US election and we are suffering from the results. That must surely cause our voters to develop a deeper distrust of politicians. The pork-barreling that has gone on, plus the realisation that no Party can fix the economic situation add to this distrust.

 

The younger generation must worry about the security of their future, both in terms of employment which feeds into the housing problem. There is also the concern over the threat of war in so many places.

 

I don't think that any Party has looked very far into the future in order to develop anything more than quick fix policies.

[facthunter]

The Young are more concerned with Climate action as they are most affected.  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

The Young are more concerned with Climate action as they are most affected.  Nev

It is hard to identify what is highest on the list of concerns of young people, since there are so many things they are told about. I'm thinking that what is on their list is not necessarily on the list of the political Parties. 

[rgmwa]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Unfortunately there are many peoply who don't have the ability to get their heads around the complexities of politics.

There is so much verbal bs, tempered by so much history of actual actions by partys and individuals, that they give up trying to think about it.

Sadly these folk are swung by the most recent bs.

Our girls have the ability to understand politics, alright and they can see through BS. Two of the three have university degrees, but none of them have a lot of interest in current affairs or what the government is doing, so when it comes to voting they ask me or their friends and go with the consensus opinion, or in the case of the youngest, don't vote for anyone.

 

[facthunter]

OME,"The Politicla Parties" is Not  a unform entity.  Anyhow your statement is bordering on Vague. If you want a definable  age groups views. Poll them. Personally I'm sick of such terms as Millenials, Gen this and that.  It's done to death. People should take an Interest in Politics as unpleasant is it may seem as your Opinion is worth having and YOU will be affected by WHO gets in.  Luckily you still have the right to vote by secret Ballot. Don't take it for granted. Nev

Edited Friday at 01:35 AM by facthunter
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[red750]

Doesn't matter who you vote for, you're going to be screwed one way or another.

[spacesailor]

" Don't take it for granted " .

That said,  makes me wonder about the first politicians .

Who' crazy idea to make , the number of voters equal in each state ,

without any " land area " per voter ! .

Ended up with the biggest area for the least number of people .

 And the highest population fighting over their tiny parcel of land .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

People DECIDE where the Place they want to live is all other things being equal and that fact will UP the value of that Property in certain Popular places. Seems straightforward to Me. Supply and Demand. Anyone seriously got better idea. Some of you Whingers don't know how worse things could be. Look at OTHER Countries. Tell me where you'd prefer to be right now on Election  Eve  Able to vote by secret Ballot freely and without fear. Look at what you have. Not what you don't have. Improve it Get involved. Add your bit. Nev

[old man emu]

My electorate, Parkes, is the largest in the State with an area of 393,000 sq km and 110,000 electors. Whoever wins this seat can expect to make a motza from the travel allowance.

 

[spacesailor]

Parkes .

Now Aboriginal country ! All the way to Tamworth. 

spacesailor