nomadpete Posted June 12 Posted June 12 Thank you, oh eloquent one. I try to consult wolfie for inspiration. Unfortunately wolfie just makes me verbose and silly. 1 2
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 12 Posted June 12 You may need some divine intervention.. St Huberts of Coldstream may release such inspiration 🙃 1
pmccarthy Posted June 12 Author Posted June 12 The latest news this morning is about corruption in Victoria and bikie/union penetration in to massively subsidised energy farm development. I tip that our premier Jacinta will be replaced by Labor before the coming election. They will still win, due to lack of an opposition. 1 1
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 12 Posted June 12 (edited) That's the rub.. the opposition, especially in Vic, seems to live in an alternate reality. We need a strong opposition that provides a credible alternative. They used to be. The reports this morning that Presutto has been thrown a $1m lifeline in staving off bankruptcy in settling his defamation loss.. but it would come with a condition that holds the Vic Libs to ransom by a property developer who would stump up the cash. That cannot end well. Edited June 12 by Jerry_Atrick 1 1
onetrack Posted June 13 Posted June 13 The Victorian Libs need to stop fighting over who has the steering wheel, and start concentrating on where the car is actually going. While they have major infighting and a lack of policies and direction, they will be forever consigned to the opposition benches as a minor political party with little relevance. The times the Liberals led the country, they had good leaders who sorted out infighting and who knew what the electorate actually wanted, and where their direction was going as regards satisfactory living conditions for the average voter. As a farmer friend said to me many years ago, we need more Statesmen and Stateswomen, not politicians. Statesmen and Stateswomen have a clear vision of what the country needs, and a plan of how to achieve it. 1 1
facthunter Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Rupert Hamer was OK. Bolte was a hanging Whacker. Ted Baulieu was OK. Napthine (Naptime) Useless. Guy ( Lobsters with the Mobsters) Now they Fight amongst them selves. Moira Deeming hasn't helped demanding Preselection as a condition of settlement. THAT stinks. Nev 1
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Someone must have liked Bolte - he was Vics longest serving premier of 17 consecutibe years. Too early for me to form any opinion on the man, but it would seem performance has no correlation to political success, nor monuments - there is a bridge named after him in Melbourne in 1999. Ahh, that was under Jeff Kennet's watch.. No wonder. BTW, you know the quality of person I am by the people I hang out with. A mate of mine started dating John Cain's daughter, but he put a stop to that very quickly.. Can't have the riff raff in. 1 1
old man emu Posted June 13 Posted June 13 I’ve been watching some videos on Australian political history. When dealing with topics related to State politics, it seems that NSW, QLD and VIC have a culture of political corruption. Don’t know about SA or WA. The list of names of the shonky polies is very long. Probably the worst thing is that the creation of corruption finding organisations does not seem to have been successful in rooting out the crooks. 3
red750 Posted June 13 Posted June 13 14 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said: Ahh, that was under Jeff Kennet's watch.. No wonder. Then the new Exhibition Building in Docklands was named Jeff's Shed, even if a nickname. 1
onetrack Posted June 13 Posted June 13 Corruption is rife in every State, and it was blatant in earlier decades, but became more hidden as corruption commissions were set up. In W.A., Brian Burke was certainly corrupt and went to jail for it. He was called the "four on the floor" Premier for his mateyness with the scumbags of the "W.A. Inc" era - Alan Bond, Laurie Connell, et al. Former Premier Ray O'Connor was almost certainly as corrupt as they came, but managed to avoid any official scrutiny. Several Police Commissioners in W.A. were almost certainly corrupt, but were "protected" by power groups, possibly Freemasons and others. There was reported to be a "Purple Circle" inside the W.A. Police heirarchy, and at least 2 senior W.A. Police officers are incriminated in unsolved murders - the murder of Shirley Finn, a Madam who was paying Police protection, and the murder of bikie, William "Billy" Grierson at Ora Banda, N of Kalgoorlie. 2
Grumpy Old Nasho Posted June 14 Posted June 14 That's why we should never have complied with military conscription in the 60s, the nation was infested with corruption and organized crime. 1
octave Posted June 14 Posted June 14 Many people did resist. During the Vietnam War, over 1,000 men in Australia applied for conscientious objector status under the National Service Act. Of these, 733 were granted total exemption from military service, 142 were exempted from combat duties, and 137 had their applications rejected. Many more Australians resisted conscription through other means, such as burning draft cards or leaving the country, although these actions are not classified as conscientious objection under the Act. Here's a more detailed breakdown: Conscientious Objection: The National Service Act defined conscientious objectors as those who sincerely believed that any form of military service was wrong. Applications: Over 1,000 men applied for conscientious objector status between 1965 and 1971. Outcomes: Total Exemption: 733 applicants were granted complete exemption from any military service. Partial Exemption: 142 applicants were exempted from combat duties only. Rejections: 137 applications were rejected. Other Forms of Resistance: Many Australians who opposed the war also resisted conscription by burning their draft cards, refusing to register for the draft, serving jail time, or leaving the country. 3
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 14 Posted June 14 I am not sure I understand the correlation between corruption/organised crime and conscription, to be quite honest. One redeeming feature of Albos is he supports the Hawks... 3
Grumpy Old Nasho Posted June 14 Posted June 14 6 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said: I am not sure I understand the correlation between corruption/organised crime and conscription, to be quite honest. Had we been on the ball, we would have said Aust and the US stunk to the high heaven with organized crime and corruption, and assassinations in the US, they killed JFK, King, John Connally and Oswald. Kings Cross in Aust was full of crime figures, and Melbourne. We could have pointed out that we were more of a threat to ourselves than tiny N/Vietnam was to us, especially since Communism was legal in Aust, we had a Communist party accepted by the AEC, and that there was not threat of Communists invading Aust from up north.
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 14 Posted June 14 OK.. I get what you say.. I am not sure hoe the first line of your response correlates to thee second line of your response? I don't see the causal link... We may have been nore or less of a threat to ourselves (and it is your assertion with lack of statement exactly what is the threat and any quantification).. .But they two are not related. We face simulataneous and unrelated threats all the time. We often deploy resources to multiple threats.
Grumpy Old Nasho Posted June 15 Posted June 15 7 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said: OK.. I get what you say.. I am not sure hoe the first line of your response correlates to thee second line of your response? I don't see the causal link... We may have been nore or less of a threat to ourselves (and it is your assertion with lack of statement exactly what is the threat and any quantification).. .But they two are not related. We face simulataneous and unrelated threats all the time. We often deploy resources to multiple threats. Suffice to say that EVERYTHING changed after we got out of Vietnam. Everything changed because we just could not keep going the way we were. The political landscape changed completely. The Liberal Coalition got thrown out and had to wake up to themselves. The English cop Peter whatshisname was employed to de-contaminate the NSW police force. Aboriginals were being giving more of a fair go. The military was being asked to change to become a Professional military, completely different to the previous fight by the seat-of-your-pants military. Foreign relations with Vietnam did a complete 180degree turnaround, yet it was still communist after they won the war, and they are not under our beds.
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 15 Posted June 15 12 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said: Suffice to say that EVERYTHING changed after we got out of Vietnam. Everything changed because we just could not keep going the way we were. The political landscape changed completely. The Liberal Coalition got thrown out and had to wake up to themselves. The English cop Peter whatshisname was employed to de-contaminate the NSW police force. Aboriginals were being giving more of a fair go. The military was being asked to change to become a Professional military, completely different to the previous fight by the seat-of-your-pants military. Foreign relations with Vietnam did a complete 180degree turnaround, yet it was still communist after they won the war, and they are not under our beds. It is tenuous at best to suggest a causal link between the Vietnam war and everything changing at home. Apart from possibly addressing issues in the military, that period of time was already one of the most socially transformative times. From teh 50s in US and Europe, as a result of economic progression, the masses were availed educational opportunities previously reserved for the upper echolons of society. This came in the 70s for Aus by Whitkam abolishing university fees. Also, the leaps and bounds in media technology meant more people than nor had TV sets, radios and the like. Public libraries sprrang up. People were better educated and better informed, which led to more people demanding better or their vote would go to someone else. Ironically, the unpopularity (and the sad way the vets were treated) was probably a result of the rapiod rise of education and information. Flower power, human rights, etc, were all gaining speed long before the Vietnam war even started. I would argue the Vietnam was was coincidental to most of the change you talk about. As an example, I recall in the 70s sitting in th elounge room watchin ABC 4 Corners doing a piece on NSW police corruption and my mum saying something like lucky we livein Victoria - as if the police there were virtuous. But then news came out soem time later about bent Vic police, too. 2
red750 Posted June 17 Posted June 17 I heard a comment tonight that in the big party in Canada, Albo had to sit at the kids table. 1 1
nomadpete Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Everyone knows you don't get to sit at donny's table unless you first pay $1 million for the invite. 1
Jerry_Atrick Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Yeah.. but it rapidly became a damp squib on his departure. 1
Grumpy Old Nasho Posted June 18 Posted June 18 On 15/06/2025 at 11:04 PM, Jerry_Atrick said: It is tenuous at best to suggest a causal link between the Vietnam war and everything changing at home. Things don't change until there's an election. We had to wait till the next election to get the Liberal Coalition booted out. By that time, even more damage had been done. What I'm asserting is that once it was recognized that conscription was going to be damaging to young guys, and going to war in Vietnam was not such a good idea, then that's when something should have been done, and not waiting till 1972 to do something. If it was not good in '72, then why was it good in '65?. In only seven short years, voters had realized they had been totally stupid continuing to vote the Coalition in, and when they stopped, they still didn't feel guilty enough to force the government to give compensation to the conscripts. Conscription has never been popular in Australia, and there was doubts about our involvement in Vietnam from early on, no one even knew where Vietnam was. Many lives were lost, all for nothing. There should have been accountability outside of the electoral process. Voters were ignorant beyond belief, and Liberal politicians had mush for brains. A complete and thorough assessment of all the future consequences needed to be looked at BEFORE getting involved. Chances are, based on the '72 election result, we would have decided we'd have no conscription, and only very limited involvement with the US in Vietnam. Informed and educated foresight wasn't really a virtue of any voter or politician then, was it? Is it a virtue today? I haven't seen much lately. 1 1
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