Police make unbelievable find under couch in Perth home.

[facthunter]

The LAW is an ass.  Nev

[facthunter]

Substantial parts of Hitler's racist policy were extracted straight from Ku Klux Klan  propaganda material and Policies. Nev

[onetrack]

If Hitler had allowed American-style gun ownership, does your SIL really believe that would have stopped the Nazis in their tracks? This is typical American gun-fondler propaganda.

 

Nowhere in history has a well-armed populace stopped a tyrannical takeover of a country by a murderous Govt or military force. Just look at South Vietnam pre-1975, the country was awash in firearms, yet the North Vietnamese walked all over it, and took over.

You don't bring civilians with a few firearms to a war run by military forces, and tell everyone you're going to win.

 

The bottom line is, there is a direct relationship between the number of firearms in a country, and the level of homicides by firearm. Gun-fondling families who own a large number of firearms have a much higher chance of family member deaths.

 

Those deaths are more often accidental, or suicide. After Australia's gun buyback and tightening of our firearms laws in 1997, suicides by firearm in Australia dropped by 60%!

That led to a major overall percentage drop in suicide deaths, as firearms are a favourite method of suicide victims.

 

The Swiss are always bragging about how they have a vast amount of armed civilians and the highest number of firearms per head of civilian population, behind the U.S. What they fail to mention is they also have the world's second highest level of firearm homicides - second only to America! While the Swiss don't have the level of mass public shootings as America does, they have an enormous level of firearm suicides.

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-s-troubling-record-of-suicide/8301804

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

That provision is often included in the Regulations to an Act that is meant to control an activity. It generally falls under the scope of hindering. An example is a traffic offence. Police can demand from a passenger the identity of the driver at the time of an alleged offence, and failure to do so is an offence.

ome, that's not an example of what was discussed regarding access to safe storage keys. Marty's post was not about a gun owner hindering by not opening a safe or not telling where the keys are. It was about the fact that the registered gun owner is the only person allowed access to the keys, and those keys are to be kept secure. If a family member knows where the keys are and has access to them, then the keys are not secured, hence the offence. The only circumstance where a family member would be legally able to access the keys would be if they held a gun license that covered all categories of firearm in the safe. There's no hindering involved; it's an issue of who has legal access to the safe.

[willedoo]

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

They might be strict, but Australian gun laws have saved a lot of lives. We don't have toddlers topping baby-sitters, and our criminals keep their gunfights to themselves. Yes, we have had a couple of nut case mass shootings, but no rules or regulations will prevent those isolated incidents. 

I agree with that. The gun laws are strict out of necessity to be effective. Some areas could be tightened up, such as the example onetrack gave of property owners supplying property authority to shoot to complete strangers. As it stands, the majority of farmers, professional shooters and sporting shooters are not a problem. The grey area is the license holders who own several firearms but don't use them for any sporting or recreational (hunting) purposes. They have them for the sole purpose of having firearms.

[onetrack]

The fact that vast numbers of roadside signs still get shot up daily, and many domestic and wild animals killed needlessly, indicates to me that there's still a way to go to tighten firearm-ownership laws further.

 

One country council I know of, incurs multiple thousands of dollars in sign replacement costs each year, and they're furious about the ongoing firearm vandalism.

 

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/cows-shot-tortured-left-to-die-on-kalgoorlie-station-ng-69ecda724e2699b136611ea4f31426a9

 

https://www.gsherald.com.au/news/great-southern-herald/police-investigating-more-than-200-rounds-that-were-illegally-shot-into-a-cluster-of-road-signs-ng-b881897971z

 

 

[facthunter]

Only demonstrates the "mentality" of these gun toting drop kicks. Shooting up a roadsign. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

You guys are correct about how restricting guns saves lives, but some of you are neglecting the use of guns by the police.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

You guys are correct about how restricting guns saves lives, but some of you are neglecting the use of guns by the police.

In NSW there are 17,348 persons who hold the office of Constable. (Ranks such as Senior Constable, Sergeant, Inspector are simply due to the hierarchy of the organisation.) That means that there should be 17,348 hand guns in police holsters, plus a much lesser number of long arms which are only held by Tactical Response Squads. So with that many guns in just one police organisation, look at the number of persons shot by police in the whole country annually over the past 20 years - about 8 per year.

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

One reason for ' target practice on signs is simply ! . NOWHERE else to tryout that new UNLICENSED firearm you wish to purchase .

THEN the problem with trying to get that firearm licensed . IS your problem .

I went through similar , in NZ were the unlicensed owner wanted to shoot someones ' SHEEP ' . jUST TO DEMONSTRATE THEIR 308 RIFLE . i TOOK HIM TO THE CLUB RIFLE RANGE , HE DIDN'T KNOW HE COULD JOIN .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

It is interesting, and I understand that the Voc police were normally unarmed until the Walsh Street ambush in the 80s from memory. The reaction was that police need to be armed and they were all (or almost all) armed.

 

Contrast this to the UK where the police are normally unarmed. The police here have to deal with armed suspects all the time. and of course, a lot more street-based terrorist activity than in Australia. TYhey have some sprays available and a few have tasers these days, but not many. It is reported that, despite London being quite a dangerous place in parts, there is a desire to have the bobby (or outside of London, normal beat) officers without firearms to minimise conflict/antagonsim with suspects and the public in general.

 

When I first moved here, I could not believe the normal policeman didn't carry a firearm. But, it sort of worked in that most people wer very comfortable arounf them. They kept a truncheon, but it was concealed under their coats. Fast forward to today, and they still don't carry guns, but they appear more "assertive":

All that hardware was not generally visible previously... And I have noticed a general shift in people's attitudes as a force to assist to a force to control behaviour... Although they still don;'t generally carry guns, and I think this is still a big factor in the way the police and the escalation potential. Of course, I cannot comment from the then blue line perspective.

 

Mind you, the Met is under a lot of scrutiny at the moment for other issues - partcularly around a few bad apples who have used their credentials to lure women to being raped and their deaths... And of general mysoginy and racism.

 

I know when I last saw a Vic policeman on the street, it was a stark contrast and I was immediately at unease. But, certainly in London, armed police are not too far away if they are needed.

 

[old man emu]

The reason for all that gear being exposed is a Work, Health and Safety issue that Police Management had to fix for employees due to the increased amount of gear that Management decided street police had to carry. Before the introduction of the vests, police were suffering lower back injury from carrying a firearm, handcuff pouch, OC spray, PPE pouch and portable radio on a belt attached to the pants belt. Also, with the removal of the height restriction and increase in the number of women it was found that a lot of the women and smaller men did not have enough space on their appointments belt to carry everything. So the vest was introduced so that the load was carried on the shoulders. 

 

 

 

When I joined my appointments were simply a holster with a flap closing over it, and a handcuff pouch.  This is the mid- to late 1980s uniform (but the T-baton was never issued) Note the S&W .38 cal revolver and spare ammo in a "quick" load strip in the pouch in front of the break-away style holster.

 

I agree that the current exposed armoury is aggressive, but to a degree, the people that street police have to deal with at times are heaps more aggressive than their grandfathers of 40 to 50 years ago. There has been a massive increase in the number of persons who are regularly walking around carrying knives and whose culture encourages the use of knives. Also the usual age group that police have violent confrontation with is far less respectful than in the past. (Thank you, United States culture), as well as prone to use stimulants, whereas at the end of the 20th Century, drug use was mostly the depressants, which meant no aggression.

 

I think that the current uniform of cargo pants and baseball caps destroys the impression of authority that the old uniform of trousers, tie and formal cap provided. Nowadays, police on the street look daggy. I will say that I was glad to get rid of the suit coat and go to shirt sleeves as the summer uniform, but it was still tidy and projected authroity.

 

[facthunter]

Anyone carrying a concealed weapon and not authorised should do time in the slammer..  Nev

[onetrack]

Anyone carrying a sizeable knife or a machete needs jail time - because it shows an intention to indulge in grievous bodily harm, and even murder.

In the U.S., a murder charge requires an intent to kill or harm, or reckless indifference to life, so carrying a vicious murderous weapon is nothing less than showing intent to murder or harm, and a reckless indifference to life, IMO.

[facthunter]

Doesn't apply to your own home. Your home should be your Castle.  Nev

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Your home should be your Castle.

 

Will someone tell Facthunter https://giphy.com/gifs/castle-the-bonnie-doon-RdKjB0lOt01ytMqGPg?utm_source=iframe&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=Embeds&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.screenaustralia.gov.au%2F

[Jerry_Atrick]

Thanks, OME. It is always good to get another perspective. And I agree, policing these days must be much more difficult and dangerous than the old days.. not to say the old days didn't have their issues, of course. The point about the different types of drugs and their stimulant affect is not something I had thought of. Even though alcohol initially acts as a stimulant, it is understood that the dopamine released as a result provides is the real stimulant, and alcohol is actually a depressant.

 

And I do understand the rationale between more hardware to deal with the different nature and more direct threat. I think it comes down to how the enforcement is structured.. of even the word enforcement itself. This is an interesting article, if, to me, a little superficial, asserts that, "The ideology of British policing rests on the notion of ‘policing by consent’: that the police are ‘citizens in uniform’; that the primary duty of the police is to the public, not the state; and that the use of force is a last resort.": https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11292-019-09408-8.

 

I think that is largely the culture in the UK with respect to its police. And I am sure that is the case in Australia, too.. but in my few formal interactions with police, which is by no means of any statistical significance, while the outcomes were largely the same, I was more at ease in initial dealing with those less initially assertive. I know I am not your average violent crim, though. But I do wonder how much of the work the average bobby spends with the average violent crim? And whether, with the perception of less hardware, it would make a difference in the interaction - does it create a vicious circle?

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[willedoo]

11 hours ago, old man emu said:

The reason for all that gear being exposed is a Work, Health and Safety issue that Police Management had to fix for employees due to the increased amount of gear that Management decided street police had to carry. Before the introduction of the vests, police were suffering lower back injury from carrying a firearm, handcuff pouch, OC spray, PPE pouch and portable radio on a belt attached to the pants belt.

Thanks ome, I hadn't thought of that aspect of it. I'd always thought the vests were for convenience and didn't think of the load spreading function.

[willedoo]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The point about the different types of drugs and their stimulant affect is not something I had thought of.

I think methamphetamines changed the risk factor of policing forever. Ice is every police officer's nightmare.

[spacesailor]

My Old ' Arthritic ' mother All-way's carried an ' illegal knife. used as all old toothless folk do '' to cut their food '' .

a pocket\pen\folding, knife is very difficult for arthritic hands to open . so the first t I saw a '' Butterfly knife '' I knew it was exactly what was required & bought it as a needed present .

 

spacesailor

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by spacesailor
lost picture

[Bruce Tuncks]

I hate how police swagger now that they are carrying cowboy guns. In South Australia, the head of the police union years ago who got guns for them all, subsequently did time for drugs and armed robbery.

I wish we were like the UK.

[Old Koreelah]

57 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I hate how police swagger now that they are carrying cowboy guns…

A local copper we all knew had his good points, but was not the bloke to disagree with; he liked to put has hand on his gun when making a point.

[facthunter]

IF Ice is a problem why do they say "FREEZE"?  Nev

[old man emu]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF Ice is a problem why do they say "FREEZE"?  Nev

The English Bobby's call is, "Simon says - Freeze." So polite.

[facthunter]

Fairly simple.  Nev