rgmwa

Don't have any photos sadly, although I still have the drawings. It was basically a steel cage (err... I mean `elephant handling device' ... Zoos don't like to use the word `cage' any more) with sliding gates at each end and movable sides to `crush' the elephant, plus lots of inspection ports to allow the keepers and vets to take samples, administer injections, etc. It also had an overhead gantry and winch so they could lift any elephant that might collapse. It was designed for a 6.5 tonne Asian elephant as we don't have any African elephants here. The keepers rate elephants as the most dangerous animal in the zoo - particularly the bulls when they're charged with testosterone. Very powerful, smart, and they remember people they don't like. If they pee on you, you're OK. That means they like you. rgmwa

I assume you mean Taronga, Ben? Interesting, as we did the same for the elephants at Perth zoo around the same time. Had to design an `elephant handling device' from scratch. That was pretty interesting. rgmwa

Agree with Downunder's suggestions. Aviation museum is well worth a look. rgmwa

Heard it all before Gnu....and I can't be bothered getting into the same old debate that will go nowhere. Believe what you like and I'll do the same. rgmwa PS. I didn't actually say anything about Darwinian evolution, but just to be clear ... I believe that the Theory of Evolution is a working hypothesis.

Don, despite your best efforts at offering scientific enlightenment, it's pretty clear by now that GG is a lost cause when it comes to logic and reason, and is probably beyond salvation. rgmwa

It might be `free' but there will be a cost somewhere. Microsoft isn't that silly. rgmwa

Surely not, Nev. I always thought it was for a noble cause. Where did I go wrong? rgmwa

I think we're saying the same thing in a slightly different way, OK. Clearly the `good' Islamists are decent people who don't follow those rules that allow or insist that nasty things be done to non-believers. They are the vast majority. However there are some `evil bastards' that do because it suits their own agenda, and they use the jihad argument to convince impressionable and disgruntled young people to do their dirty work for them. Hitler was pretty good at it too.

Well, there are probably a few Catholics who feel the same way about the Pope, but I agree that the Muslims as a group seem to be particularly serious about their religion. Nevertheless, they are not all a bunch of misfits who walk around with AK47's and a grudge against the world. I don't think the problem is Islam per se. The problem is the radical clerics and their camp followers who choose to interpret the prophet's writings in a way that suits their murderous political agenda. Jihad has more to do with politics and power than religion. rgmwa

I agree Marty, but let's not forget that the majority of Muslims are decent people who also abhor the actions of the extremist elements in their midst. Unfortunately they tend to get tarred with the same brush. rgmwa

You're probably right 8okts, and I expect all the Christian to Athiest converts are probably doing the same. Which reminds me, Gnu's been a bit quiet lately. I wonder .... rgmwa

Yes, I saw it there too KG, but I still don't know what it means. :( rgmwa

No, not at all NP. I totally agree with you. All I was saying is that the problems occur when people try to force their beliefs onto others (as you said), or when they won't accept that others may have different beliefs, including no belief (religious or otherwise). rgmwa

So far I've learned a bit about alternative views of history, evolution and physics, had some typing practice, and remain none the wiser when it comes to religion and the answer to Everything. Has anyone else done any better or joined the opposing team yet? rgmwa

... or criticise others for their belief or lack of belief, as the case may be... rgmwa

Just read the article 80kts. Thought it was pretty poor to be honest. He's got a very biased point of view, therefore not convincing at all. rgmwa

You can't be God, KG because there's only supposed to be one of us. Just keep taking your medication like I have to. rgmwa

Yes, certainly room for improvement in the design of my eyes, not to mention just about every other bit I can think of. Just adds to the evidence for lack of intelligent design if you ask me. A truly intelligent designer would have come up with a much better example of me than me. rgmwa

Fair enough, but then if God designed and created everything, who do you think designed and created God? rgmwa

Yep, and then the believer and the non-believer are going to look at each other and say "Oh no! Don't tell me you're here too!" rgmwa

Labelling someone a `God-hater' does not indicate a tolerant attitude GG. You may think you are very tolerant, but that's not how you come across. In any case, as has already been pointed out, athiests are not god-haters since they can't hate something they believe doesn't exist. As for warning them of the consequences, save your breath. They don't take much notice of carefully selected quotations from the scriptures either. rgmwa

I think that attitude is quite sinful GG, and worthy of repentence. Remember, tolerance is a virtue. It's like an athiest saying " I equate religious fundamentalists as athiest haters because that how they come across", although I suspect that in your case it may be close to the truth. No offence intended, mind you. rgmwa

Suggest that to a few victims of child abuse committed at the hands of members of the clergy and see if they agree with you. I'm sure even God would think twice about whether it was `so imperative in the scheme of things' that they should be forgiven their sins. rgmwa

GG, I'm impressed by your ability to find a biblical quotation to support every situation and circumstance, but I'm really at a loss to understand the world you live in. For example, Marty mentioned Original Sin, and having been brought up Catholic that's a familiar concept. However, some six decades later the idea that I somehow inevitably share in Adam and Eve's guilt just seems like superstitious nonsense, and I'm sure any God worth his/her salt would see the basic injustice in that notion. So does your black and white view that we can't enter heaven (wherever and whatever that may be) unless we are free of sin, and that we are all sinners and inevitably doomed unless we repent (and what does that mean exactly?). And let's not even start on the question of the origin of our species and all the other life forms on the planet, the planet itself and the universe(s?) in general. Fortunately we are all free to make up our own minds on these subjects, and while you would probably see me as an incorrigible and unrepentant sinner, I'm sorry to say that nothing that you have said makes any sense to me. rgmwa

Those Gideon's bible people sure do get around don't they, GG? rgmwa