The climate change debate continues.

[Siso]

No-one has ever really got green hydrogen right. Information is readily available that it is a lot harder then the lobbyist say it is. Someone dropped the ball.

[octave]

15 minutes ago, Siso said:

No-one has ever really got green hydrogen right.

Whilst it is true that green hydrogen is still in its infancy, it does not mean that it is a dead technology.  

 

Notable (and relatively successful) green hydrogen projects

🇸🇦 NEOM Green Hydrogen Project

One of the world’s largest projects (over 2 GW electrolyser capacity)

Backed by Air Products and ACWA Power

~90% constructed as of 2025–2026

Designed to produce hydrogen → ammonia for export

👉 Why it matters:
This is one of the first projects moving from hype to bankable, near-operational scale.

🇨🇳 Chifeng Net Zero Hydrogen-Ammonia Project

Developed by Envision Energy

Produces ~320,000 tonnes of green ammonia per year (already operating)

Powered by wind + solar

👉 Why it matters:
This is one of the few large projects already running, not just planned.

🇩🇪 Bad Lauchstädt Energy Park

~30 MW electrolyser using wind power

Supplies hydrogen to chemical industry (e.g. TotalEnergies)

👉 Why it matters:
A good example of industrial integration, not just production.

🇮🇳 Kandla Green Hydrogen Plant

Small (1–10 MW), but operational and locally used

Powers buses and port infrastructure

👉 Why it matters:
Shows hydrogen working in real transport and port use, not just theory.

🇨🇳 Large-scale wind-to-hydrogen hubs (Inner Mongolia)

Multi-billion-dollar developments combining renewables + hydrogen

China already exceeded ~220,000 tonnes/year capacity and scaling fast

👉 Why it matters:
China is arguably the only place doing this at real industrial scale today.

🏭 Companies that are actually delivering projects

These aren’t single projects but are consistently active (a good proxy for “success”):

Fortescue Future Industries

Adani Enterprises

TotalEnergies

Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners

They’re leading global capacity build-out and investing across dozens of projects .

 

⚖️ Reality check (important)

Even the “successful” ones share a few traits:

💸 Still expensive (often $3.5–6/kg vs cheaper fossil hydrogen)

🏗️ Heavy subsidies or government backing

📈 Success = scaling + proving viability, not big profits yet

⚡ Economics depend heavily on very cheap renewable electricity

Globally, there are 500+ projects and $110B+ committed, but only a fraction are fully operational .

 

[Siso]

But should state governments be putting money into it? They are funding a hydrogen department as well as putting money into the plant as well as having a HV switchyard built.(Nice and shiny as it glitters in the sun)

[octave]

2 minutes ago, Siso said:

But should state governments be putting money into it? They are funding a hydrogen department as well as putting money into the plant as well as having a HV switchyard built.(Nice and shiny as it glitters in the sun)

Governments have always invested in promising new technologies. Many may turn out to be dead ends but others winners.  Early aviation was able to flourish because of government subsides for early air postal services as well as passenger routes.

You are pro nuclear right? Would you have any objections to public money helping to kick start nuclear power plants in this country?

[octave]

Geelong leads nation with first hydrogen fuel station

 

Hydrogen from a 2.5-megawatt electrolizer powered by wind and solar. Just a small trial at the moment, but several buses and trucks are using hydrogen fuel cell tech on the streets of Geelong

[facthunter]

A battery with two  Negative Poles has no Potential. The cost of all things can be  determined by Careful assessment of what Tendering figures sexist in the real world for Contracting these things. and how Long they take to Build and what the cost Over runs are like.  Nev

[Siso]

16 hours ago, octave said:

Governments have always invested in promising new technologies. Many may turn out to be dead ends but others winners.  Early aviation was able to flourish because of government subsides for early air postal services as well as passenger routes.

You are pro nuclear right? Would you have any objections to public money helping to kick start nuclear power plants in this country?

Nuclear works!!! Well known that green h2 has a lot of challengers, not really a promising technology yet. Round trip efficiency is not that good either.  

[octave]

 

There are commercially successful projects happening right now.

 

proven / operational or pilot success

HYBRIT (Sweden)
→ Produced fossil-free steel using hydrogen instead of coal
→ Successfully demonstrated large-scale hydrogen storage and steelmaking

Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field (Japan)
→ Operational facility producing hydrogen from solar power
→ One of the world’s largest working green hydrogen plants

 

Large-scale projects with strong commercial backing

NEOM Green Hydrogen Project
→ ~$8.4 billion investment, backed by 20+ banks
→ ~80%+ built and aiming for production around 2026–27
→ Long-term buyer already locked in (key sign of commercial viability)

🌏 Emerging industrial-scale success (often overlooked)

Chifeng Net Zero Hydrogen-Ammonia Project
→ One of the first fully operational, large-scale green hydrogen/ammonia plants
→ Producing hundreds of thousands of tonnes annually (industrial scale)

.

[octave]

Renewables and batteries drive down fossil fuel use despite record electricity demand

 

Here is a short summary of this article.

 

Australia’s latest electricity data shows that renewables and batteries are increasingly meeting demand and displacing fossil fuels, even during periods of extreme heat and record usage. Rooftop solar, wind and large-scale solar all contributed strongly, while batteries helped shift cheap daytime energy into evening peaks—cutting gas use to around 25-year lows.

This shift has contributed to lower wholesale electricity prices compared to a year ago. While retail prices don’t fall immediately—because they include network costs, retailer margins and are often locked in through contracts—the trend suggests that continued growth in renewables and storage should put downward pressure on retail electricity prices over time.

 

Now I am expecting someone to say "oh it is the bias ABC"   I think it is fair to look at the source of any story. In this case it is the AEMO "Quarterly Energy Dynamics Report Q4 2025"   Quarterly Energy Dynamics Q4 2025

 

 

[facthunter]

You can easily look up who tells the whoppers IF you are fair dinkum about it. Nev

[facthunter]

SNOPES is a fact checker. Nev

[red750]

Decommissioned wind turbine blades.

 

[octave]

16 minutes ago, red750 said:

Decommissioned wind turbine blades.

 

 

It is difficult to ascertain how old this picture is.  Whilst it is true that traditionally some old turbine blades have gone to landfill, this is changing.

 

Quote "Wind turbine blades can be recycled, but it is challenging and not yet universal. While 85-90% of a turbine (steel, copper, gearboxes) is easily recycled, blades are made of durable fibreglass/carbon fibre composites, often resulting in landfill disposal. However, new recycling technologies and repurposing methods are rapidly developing, with goals for 100% recyclability by 2030. [1, 2, 3]

Current Recycling and Disposal Methods

Cement Co-processing: The most common method, where shredded blades replace raw materials and fuel in cement production.

Mechanical Crushing: Blades are ground into materials for filler, panels, or industrial products.

Thermal/Chemical Recycling: Technologies like pyrolysis or chemical baths are emerging to separate resins from fibers for reuse, though many are still in pilot stages.

Repurposing: Blades are increasingly used in civil engineering, such as bridges, playground equipment, and noise barriers. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Future Outlook and Innovation

Recyclable Blades: Manufacturers are developing new resin technologies—such as Siemens Gamesa's RecyclableBlade and NREL's Pecan FRC—that allow materials to be easily separated and reused at end-of-life.

Industry Commitment: Major firms aim for zero-waste turbines by 2030–2040. [1, 2, 3, 4]

While landfilling is still a common, cost-effective method for older blades, the increasing number of decommissioned turbines is driving the economic viability of recycling. [1]

What happens to wind farms in Victoria when turbines ... - ABC News

In short: The Clean Energy Council says there are options for old wind farms as the originals approach the end of their life expec...

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Recycling Wind Turbines, Solar Panels and Batteries: Fact Sheet

Can wind turbine blades be recycled? Wind turbine blades are made of materials such as fibreglass or carbon fibre, as they are des...

Clean Energy Council" End Quote

 

Any newer technology creates problems that at first are challenging.  We do tend to give a free pass to existing technologies.  Consider the size of the pile of coal that would be required to generate the electricity that those blades generate in their operational life.  Coal has end-of-life problems, also.

 

Quote "Coal ash is managed through a combination of recycling and landfilling/storage. [1, 2, 3]

1. Recycling and Beneficial Use
A significant portion of fly ash is reused, rather than disposed of. [1, 2, 3]

Concrete Production: Fly ash is a high-performance substitute for Portland cement. It improves concrete durability and reduces the carbon footprint of construction.

Structural Fill and Roads: Bottom ash and fly ash are used for road base, structural fill, embankments, and stabilizing soft soils.

Brick and Block Making: Ash is used to make bricks, construction blocks, and lightweight aggregate.

Other Uses: Boiler slag is used for roofing granules and blasting grit. [1, 2, 3, 4]

2. Disposal Methods
Unused ash must be disposed of, often using "wet" or "dry" methods. [1]

Ash Ponds/Dams (Wet Method): The ash is mixed with water to create a slurry and pumped into large holding ponds. This was traditionally the cheapest method, but it poses high risks for leaching toxic heavy metals into groundwater, particularly if the ponds are unlined.

Dry Landfills (Dry Method): The ash is stored dry in landfills, which is considered safer as it reduces the potential for leaching, provided the landfill is properly lined.

Mine Backfilling: Dry ash is sometimes placed back into old, abandoned coal mines. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

Environmental and Safety Issues

Leaching: Contaminants in ash ponds can seep into groundwater and surface water, creating toxic cocktail, according to reports in Australia.

Dust Management: Dry ash, if not covered, can be blown from storage sites into surrounding communities, posing respiratory health risks.

Spills: Large-scale failures of ash dams, such as the 2008 Kingston disaster in the US, have caused massive environmental damage. [1, 2, 3, 4]

As coal-fired power plants age and close, the rehabilitation of these ash dams is a significant environmental concern. [1, 2]"

 

 

 

 

[onetrack]

Tyres are a far larger problem than worn-out wind turbine blades. You find tyres dumped everywhere you go - in remote regions, in urban areas, in rivers, and in the sea. Yet the wind turbine antogonists only see wind turbine blade waste.

[Siso]

It needs to be economic to recycle the blades. if it doesn't make money it will not happen. This is not just limited to wind turbine blades either. i can't see the 2 (3 if you include the old wtg) sets of wtg blades at Coober Pedy getting done. Probably be buried in the desert somewhere. If they are not cut up on site, transport to a recycling depot would be very expensive. Especially with the size of modern blades.

[facthunter]

Plastic and things like Glyphosate are much More of a Problem than these blades are. Subsidence and water contamination with disused Mine shafts and contaminated dust from Open cut Mines. Permanent damage. Look at the Hunter valley as an example.  Nev

[octave]