The climate change debate continues.

[facthunter]

I think the two are "INSEPARABLE".  The Climate Change Debate CONTINUES  is a statement. A DEBATE is a Formatted verbal CONTEST Not a discussion, It's designed to be VERY combative with the outcome decided by rules, Time limits and a Panel of Judges.   Nev

Edited Saturday at 12:19 AM by facthunter
more content.

[nomadpete]

The Climate Change Debate....

 

I am pretty sure that there is no debate to be had about Climate Change. It is changing.

 

 - That debate is over -

 

Further, it is pretty much universally agreed that anthropogenic climate change is real.

 

- That Debate is over -

 

There seems to still be some relatively minor uncertainty about how much of this climate change is caused by human activity suddenly adding significant amounts of greenhouse gasses. Is that really a debate?

 

The media attention focuses on CO2, mostly from the burning of coal and oils.

 

There is a big fuss over CO2. There is a negative side to that. I think this is distracting the public from noticing the other greenhouse gas emissions and the othe massive global  pollution problems.

 

The way I see it, the human animal has evolved to react when an immediate crisis threatens. In the case of the above complex poisoning of our environment, the threat, although ultimately catastrophic, is gradually occuring and seems distant. 

 

So we sit at home in a comfy armchair, doomscrolling & watching cat videos.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:27 AM by nomadpete

[facthunter]

I'm still working on My Dexta. When it was Built, I was 17. CATS are good. Nev

[Siso]

You are correct, the transmission system is always being upgraded, but not the huge amount new transmission that is having to be built. 

 

As far as it not mattering if a solar farm is underutilised, the generation is a very small part. We have the transmission line that was built into a remote place at the place of the farm. The backup for the plant when its not running. The GT running at min gen for inertia , the tranmission size voltage regulators hanging of some of the poles/wires. Intermittents are the cheapest form of new electricity generation, it is just all the extras that makes it expensive.

[old man emu]

Solar farm on agricultural land + extremly hot air temperatures + absence of site supervision can give rise to a serious fire hazard. This happened at a very large solar farm at Wellington NSW. I suppose those factors were not realised when the site was approved. You can see from the aerial photo that the site at the time of photographing was not complete. I don't know how old the photo is.

Here is a news report about the event. The report is from SkyNews, but there's only a tad of anti-renewable bias in it.

 

 

[facthunter]

Trusting SKY News ?  You must be THE Supreme Optimist of ALL TIME.  You CAN Guarantee it's BS . Nev.

[old man emu]

OOps! I forgot to link the video. While we all agree that skynews leans towards a certain direction, the fact of the fire cannot be denied. I do not know what the source of the fire was. I can only tell you that when the fire happened the air temperature was in the vicinity of 40C. I can't tell you what the fuel load was, but it would have been grass since the site was originally grazing land.

 

Was the source of ignition a malfunction with the solar panels, or from a natural souce? I don't know, but there were no thunderstorms in the area on that day. All I can say is that we await the results of the investiation into the cause.

 

[octave]

Fires on farms are not unusual.   The source could have been from farm equipment, natural sources, arson or from the solar farm.   Let's say it was from the solar farm; this surely only means analysis and actions to make it less likely to happen in the future.

 

Here is a question: Did the incident below make Skynews? No, it did not.   This happened a few weeks ago, not far from where I live.  There were numerous comments online from conservative folks suggesting that this is a normal process, and sometimes the stack does get smoky for a time.     Whether it was normal or not, it did start a grass fire, which required the fire brigade to attend. A grass fire near an oil refinery ought to be big news.

There seems to be a discount applied to existing technologies as opposed to newer ones.   A petrol or diesel car catches fire, and it is not a big story. An EV catches fire, and it is huge news and has people suggesting that this technology should not exist. 

 

[old man emu]

13 minutes ago, octave said:

The source could have been from farm equipment, natural sources, arson or from the solar farm.

True, but you can discount farm equipment as the site is not farmed. Arson is drawing a bit of a long bow. The point I wanted to make was that a possiblity could have been an electrical short . You could be correct in saying that skynews might have reported this with as much relish as it might report an EV fire. 

[octave]

I was not necessarily suggesting the most likely scenario, only suggesting that in SkyNews' world, only one of these causes would whip them up into a frenzy. As for arson being unlikely, I am not sure about that. It is within the realms of possibility, especially with anti-renewable sentiment.  It is quite likely that this fire may have been caused by the solar farm or associated equipment.   Power lines, whether they are connected to solar or not, are a major cause of fire.  Much of the technical equipment we use is capable of catching fire.  When this does happen, we analyse and take measures to reduce the likelihood of it happening again. 

[onetrack]

Arson is responsible for about 40% of bushfires - but a lot of that is accidental arson - i.e. - carelessness, such as grinding or welding near dry grass. Dry lightning strikes are responsible for about another 40% of bushfires, leaving about 20% being caused by fallen powerlines or electrical faults.

 

I would be very surprised to find that the solar farm caused the fire, they're designed to ensure safety in operation.

[facthunter]

Arcing from dust on insulators is common also. Transformers go up. A solar panel doesn't add heat to the surrounds or below it. Damp bailed HAY can spontaneously combust.  A spark from a tractor exhaust  or the cat converter on someone's vehicle can cause a fire in dry grass. OR someones cigarette Butt. Nev

[kgwilson]

There are plenty of solar farms that co-exist with cropping or grazing. Modern panels are translucent to a degree so some light gets through to the ground. Sheep are ideal for use in what is known as Agrivoltaics as they graze under standard height panels, remove the need for mechanical or chemical vegetation control, provide shelter for sheep, reduce the fire risk and actually improve the pasture as well as providing an additional source of income.