Victorian election

[onetrack]

GON, are you prepared to fund the massively-increased cost of longer incarceration of criminals? A fair percentage of criminals can be reformed - but yes, some of them certainly deserve long and heavy sentences. Repeat offenders need to have their sentences doubled.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Cut the cost of keeping them in jail, crims get it too good now. Punish them more by giving them less benefits in jail, and cut out parole.

[octave]

The United States has some pretty harsh prisons and draconian sentences.  The question is, has this led to lower rates of crime?

[Jerry_Atrick]

GON, the historical evidence is that the criminal law (including punishment) by itself is not an effective deterrent. Yeah, no doubt there are some that are on the fence that probably think not to do it because of the possible consequences, but the murder rate was higher when capital punishment was avaiilable than after it was abolished. Just google merder rate before and after capital punishment and you will see the murder rate after dapital punishement was abolished in Australia dropped. 

 

The reality is there is a percentage of society that will commit crime.. And there are many reasons for it. Just locking them up and throwing away the key doesn't address the root causes; It's like sticking a band-aod on a cut finger when your loss of blood is attributed to internal bleeding. Yeah, we need the punishment (and rehab) element, but attacking the root cause, whilst taking more resources and a longer time to see results, produces a sustainably lower crime rate over time. The evidence is in the numbers. The problem is, and it is not limited to Gen Z, society wants immediate results/gratification.. Reforming societal issues that contribute to the issue is no mean feat. 

 

 

 

[octave]

Several countries are consistently ranked as having very low crime rates, with Iceland, New Zealand, and Japan often topping the lists. Other countries with low crime rates include Denmark, Ireland, Austria, Singapore, Portugal, Slovenia, and Switzerland. These countries generally share strong social cohesion, effective law enforcement, and often have strict gun control laws. 

 

Here's a more detailed look:

• Iceland:

  Often cited as the safest country, Iceland has very low levels of conflict and militarization. 

   
• New Zealand:

  This island nation is known for its peaceful environment and low crime rates. 

   
• Japan:

  Japan's strict gun control laws contribute to its low crime rate. 

   
• European Countries:

  Many European countries, especially in Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, etc.) and Western Europe (Switzerland, Austria, etc.) are known for their low crime rates and high levels of social well-being. 

   
• Singapore:

  Known for its strict laws and efficient law enforcement, Singapore also consistently ranks high in safety. 

   

Factors contributing to low crime rates include:

• Strong social safety nets:

  Many of these countries have robust social welfare systems that address poverty and inequality, which can be drivers of crime. 

   
• Effective law enforcement:

  These countries generally have well-trained and well-equipped police forces with high public trust. 

   
• Strict gun control:

  Many of the safest countries have very restrictive laws on firearms, which can reduce both violent crime and accidental deaths. 

   
• Cultural factors:

  Some countries have a strong cultural emphasis on community, cooperation, and respect for the law, which can also contribute to lower crime rates. 

   

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Beat me to it, @octave

 

A society that looks after its people, educates them, is inclusive and provides a safe environment, while at the same time having wicket keeper controls when things go awry is always going to have lower crime rates across the board than those that take an opposite approach. 

 

 

[red750]

These days, social media has a lot to do with. "Look what I did and got away with it".But there should be a limit to the 'second chances' given by the courts. Judges are too lenient and this idea of 'human rights' that we keep hearing about is over the top. Break bail conditions and you forfiet those rights. 

 

I'll get shot down in flames for this, but we need a bit more of this -

[facthunter]

Find the cost of putting people 

in Gaol. It's a fortune. Nev

[old man emu]

Apart from a very few who are in goal for white collar crime, or for a one-off offence, the majority of persons in goal suffer from lack of education. A lot are more illiterate than your average First Grade primary school kid. That illiteracy means they can’t get permanent employment, so exist on “the dole”. 

 

That sort of existence has been happening for several generations now and has become a sub-culture. Lack of education and its accompanying poverty lead to criminal activity. 

 

Attempts at rehabilitation whilst in goal fail because education is not provided until the end of sentence is approaching, by which time the person has become enmeshed in another sub-culture, that of the prison yard. 

 

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

Want less crime?

Fund high quality universal early childhood education.

Do free nutritious school lunches.

Provide free dental care. (Health not cosmetic).

Those things alone would help bring down the crime rate.

As others have said, the better the society, the less crime.

People who are healthy and well educated are far less likely to offend.

[onetrack]

37 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

People who are healthy and well educated are far less likely to offend.

Yeah, they only go on to indulge in clever white collar crime, and devious tax evasion.......... 😬

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yeah, true.. 

 

But will force the government to have to get real on tax, I guess...

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

8 hours ago, red750 said:

These days, social media has a lot to do with. "Look what I did and got away with it".But there should be a limit to the 'second chances' given by the courts. Judges are too lenient and this idea of 'human rights' that we keep hearing about is over the top. Break bail conditions and you forfiet those rights. 

 

I'll get shot down in flames for this, but we need a bit more of this -

Agree re social media. It allows people to form virtual groups and group mentality festers..

 

I am not sure I agree witht he judges being lenient. They are subject to sentencing laws (in NSW See the Crimes (Sentencing and Procedures Act) 1996, where the act tries to use prison as a last resoirt except for certain crimes. Community Correction Orders and similar. In addition, there are sentencing guielines which come from the respective state/federal departments. Also, the press don't report the whole case and often design their articles to evoke emotional responses. And, sometimes, the prisons are just too full for petty criminals, I guess. 

 

Believe it or not I agree with what I think is the sentiment of the photo. Locking pople up and letting them fester certainly isan expensive waste. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the exact approach of the photo, surely having prisoners being part of a well thought out program where they contriibute to society while learning new skills, gaining confidence, and the like has to be a good thing. Yeah, there are other challenges (mental health, etc), but again, an investment to properly rehabilitate versus have them sita around has to be a good thing.

[red750]

Melbourne's Metro Tunnel was meant to open this weekend. The Gov't are now saying later this year, but that's now consideed unlikely. Two new stations have not been completed, and they are only just starting to work on the timetables. When they do start, it will only be off-peak services. Peak services will not start till next year, and passengers will have to travel via the existing City Loop. Couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yep.. Same with large/mega projects around the world - both public and privately run. Just looik at Hinkly Point C, which is run by EDF: https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/news/hinkley-point-c-could-go-28bn-over-budget-as-edf-predicts-further-delays/

 

That is a private company, too, although majority owned by the French government. 

 

There are big winners in those projects and big losers -  the losers are the taxpayer/consumer. 

[facthunter]

Get over it red. The People Voted. There's technical reasons why there's delays.  Nev