Americanism over riding Aus, why don't people care.

[nomadpete]

20 hours ago, randomx said:

Same with my work , many a time hrs and hrs driving across state. Could usually get abc or tripple j though so that often saved the day

If I listen to the ranting of radio shock jocks long enough, I start ranting myself. Like the army shrink in 'Alices Resataurant'.

 

These days there are social media 'influencers' doing the same stuff even more efficiently.

 

It's not only coming from Merika.

Edited 15 hours ago by nomadpete

[Marty_d]

Excessive nationalism puts me off.  

When you think about it clear-headedly we're a reasonably young (apart from the original inhabitants) immigrant country.  We don't have a thousand years of culture, our own language, a national dish, etc etc. 

Our population is based on waves of English, Chinese, Dutch, German, Greek, Vietnamese, Italian, African, Islander and a whole bunch of other people, plus of course Indigenous Australians.

The keynote songs and poetry we hold up as Australian were written by men that probably considered themselves English.  Our system of laws is heavily based on England's and in name we're still subjects of England's king.

Even our flag contains the UK's flag in the corner.

When it comes to Americanism, even our first "local" car, the Holden FX, was heavily based on US cars.  Clothing styles, music, popular culture and fast food have been based on US trends since at least post WWII.  

That's not to say we haven't got runs on the board, with vibrant Australian music, sport, theatre and literature.  We have one of the world's best democracies, social services, and health care.  Our education system is still excellent although unfortunately (in the case of universities) more focused on revenue than research.

But to wave some mythical "uniqueness" around and try to block outside influences is pointless.  Like those idiots that go around wearing Australian flags and protesting about immigration, not seeing the irony that we're all immigrants and those flags were made in China.

Instead of closing off and looking inwards, like a backwards Trumpist country, we should be eagerly looking at everything that everyone else does, and taking the best ideas and using them ourselves.  Someone actually makes billionaires pay tax?  Let's use that.  Someone's public hospital system has lower wait times?  Let's see what they're doing differently and use it.  Someone's school attendance and retention scores are higher than ours?  What are they doing differently?  Someone's prison recidivism rates are lower?  Let's have a look at their justice system and see what we can steal.

 

I don't mind bringing in best practice, no matter where it comes from.  Good American movies and TV shows?  Bring them on.

 

What I do object to is bringing in the worst of other cultures.  Privatisation of health care?  F**k right off.  Multinationals that pay no tax in Australia?  No thanks.  American gun culture?  Jam it up your arse and pull the trigger.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Marty_d

[old man emu]

Just now, Marty_d said:

in name we're still subjects of England's king.

When will people stop saying that?  King Charles III is the King of the United Kingdom and at teh same time he is, separately, king of Australia. 

 

This is the wording of the Proclamation of King Charles III:

 

Whereas because of the death of our blessed and glorious Queen Elizabeth the Second, the Crown has solely and rightfully come to Prince Charles Philip Arthur George:

We, therefore, General the Honourable David Hurley AC DSC (Retd), Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia, and members of the Federal Executive Council, do now proclaim Prince Charles Philip Arthur George to be King Charles the Third, By the Grace of God King of Australia.

 

So we are the subjects of King Charles III of the Commonwealth of Australia.

[Marty_d]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

When will people stop saying that?  King Charles III is the King of the United Kingdom and at teh same time he is, separately, king of Australia. 

 

This is the wording of the Proclamation of King Charles III:

 

Whereas because of the death of our blessed and glorious Queen Elizabeth the Second, the Crown has solely and rightfully come to Prince Charles Philip Arthur George:

We, therefore, General the Honourable David Hurley AC DSC (Retd), Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia, and members of the Federal Executive Council, do now proclaim Prince Charles Philip Arthur George to be King Charles the Third, By the Grace of God King of Australia.

 

So we are the subjects of King Charles III of the Commonwealth of Australia.

How is that different from what I said?

[old man emu]

20 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

How is that different from what I said?

 

I wanted to make the distiction between his being king of the United Kingdom, and being king of Australia. The United Kingdom and Australia are two separate things.

 

If Australians ever decided to become a republic, it would be the King of the Commonwealth of Australia who would be replaced with another sort of Head of State.  To say that Australia's Head of State is the king of England, inferring that Australia is the subject of a foreign king, is incorrect. King Charles III wears two crowns, and the rights given by those two crowns are independent of each other. In our modern world, does it really matter where the Head of State's place of abode is located? 

[octave]

17 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Excessive nationalism puts me off.  

 

Me too. 

  I was thinking back to when I joined the RAAF in 1979. Although born in the UK, I grew up in Adelaide.  I was posted to Richmond, NSW.   Back then, people were much more parochial.  It really seemed to matter what state you were from. These days, people you meet are likely to have lived and worked in several states.

We talk of preserving our national identity, but I am not sure what that identity actually is.  I came to Australia when I was 18 months old, so I am a product of the Australian education system, yet raised by a lovely couple from Yorkshire (no, I don't have the accent).

My son was born in Australia, but is now a NZ citizen with a Chinese partner.  Amongst my son's employees, there is a German, someone from Holland, some Australians and some Kiwis.

 

It is not uncommon for younger people to work overseas. Even much, much older people, I am looking at you @Jerry_Atrick  

 

Whilst we don't want to become exactly like people from the US, we inevitably will be influenced by those we live and work with.

 

Yesterday, someone posted about the creation of an Australian-specific AI.  Being a curious person, I asked ChatGPT whether it thought there needed to be an Australian LLM.  It said "Yes to a point"  and proceeded to tell me what Australianisms it did understand and what it was likely to misunderstand.   Its examples of Australian words and phrases tended to be a little exaggerated.   We don't usually call each other cobber.   Would an Australian LLM become a cartoonish version of Australia? 

 

 

[facthunter]

Patriotism IS the Last refuge of a Scoundrel. Don't we say Gidday MATE or "OW Ya goin?  Also, the World doesn't NEED ANOTHER Language unless it's a common one. Too many things get LOST in the translation.   Nev 

[octave]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Don't we say Gidday MATE

That reminds me. My wife and I go bushwalking 3 or 4 times a week, and we have noticed something. My tendency throughout most of my life has been to say Gday.  Whilst bushwalking, when we pass someone on the trail, we usually exchange pleasantries.  People seem not to say "Gday", but instead say good morning (or afternoon).   We were wondering if "Gday"  might be getting a little old hat these days. I find myself more and more saying "good morning" (or afternoon)

[onetrack]

I must be old school. I still always say "G'Day" to everyone. I can recall a neighbour in the country telling me a story about a visiting Yank, who spotted a few T-shirts with "G'Day" on them, and was continually perplexed.

 

Finally he asked one of the Aussies, "Hey buddy, what does this "GEE - Day" stand for, (that) I see on your T-shirts??" He thought it was some kind of special commemorative Australian  day.

[octave]

Perhaps it is being raised by British parents, but I have always adapted. When I joined the RAAF, we used to travel around and often go to Williamstown airbase near Newcastle. In line with my northern British roots, I would pronounce Newcastle with a short "a", no one else did. Eventually, I adapted.

The other thing for me is that as I age, I definitely don't want to be pigeon-holed as an old man with old attitudes.  My circle of friends tends to be younger than me, and like my time in the RAAF, I tend to adapt to my surroundings.   This is very much just my personal philosophy.

[pmccarthy]

People in Castlemaine say Cassel maine not carsle maine as I do. That is my NSW accent, which rarely makes a difference.

[onetrack]

As you age, it is very important to cultivate new, younger friends - because all your lifelong friends die when you get old, and you end up suffering from loneliness. Plus, having younger friends keeps you in touch with current culture and trends. Dick van Dyke makes some good observations about living to 100.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/dick-van-dyke-age-birthday-health-diet-b2875237.html

[facthunter]

PMC do you take your cossies in your Port? I'm trying to bring BACK Hoo Roo.. Nev.

[randomx]

l mean l can well understand at times in the past we were too much so the other way and kinda naive , but it's a far cry and way too opposite these days .

It's proven right in this thread with stuff said many times, and over in that Whirlpool thread about the same thing to- even though l hate that damn place it's gotta be ran by 3aw and the same tiny tiny minds l swear butttttt , none the less. There's a thread there l forget how long but t's bloody long, 100s of pages l think and many many people see what's happening but ofc there's the many that are clueless in it to.

But someone said it right there- he's not even sure what our identity is .

Well, if that right there doesn't tell you we're lost souls here that need something done before we just turn into America - or someone else, then you'd be blind as a bat.

 

We've even had PM's v worried about it all and wanting to limit force fed American tv here and add far greater Aus and others content instead.

Forget who they've been, wasn't that halfwit Howard l don't think ,he was so busy kissing Bush's backside but l think back at the time others were fighting him about all this very thing even then , even b4 the internet has really taken off but ofc with all that now and that hasn't even begun- it's a 20fold these days. and you can triple that again in the v near future. Anyone who can't see all that coming as also as blind as a bat even Musk is worried about it ofc not the Americanism part but the rest.

 

At anyrate, whomever mentioned an identity, nailed it, exactly and we're losing whatever we did have faster and faster. Now Albo's seeing to that yet again and on a whole nother level again and thread all it's own, we're not even suppose to mention ourselves beng an Australian these days fear of offending someone, friggin pathetic weak leaders.

 

Actually , anyone know what that Blockhead Dutton thought about all this sort of thing. Dumbest man to ever stand up there on most things but he did seem to have some very good stands on others, like immigration, housing, and so hence l'd imagine maybe holding on to Australia as well but not sure about that angle.  Could've panned out to be another yanky boot kisser to for all l know.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by randomx

[facthunter]

I don't REALLY believe America is Over riding us IF we Eliminate the Trump effect. We buy Nothing like the Amount of stuff from them that we used to. . That's THEIR Problem. Not Ours. Our dependency on THEM when Trump is so Erratic is a Cause for Concern. THAT NEEDS working through and careful handling. Thoughtful diplomacy well researched. Not Breast Beating public displays of Alpha Male Behaviour..  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

7 hours ago, Marty_d said:

not seeing the irony that we're all immigrants

Speak for yourself. I'm a 5th generation Aussie, I'm no immigrant, neither are millions of other traditional Aussies, and we will rightfully express concerns, whatever they are.

[Marty_d]

5th generation! What's that, about 150 years?

I reckon to the folks that were living here for somewhere between 45,000 and 60,000 years, that's a flash in the pan.

My mum's family have been here for about the same time, my dad came from Sri Lanka in 1955. Was he less Australian than her? If not, then why is the person who got here from Afghanistan last Tuesday any less Australian than you?

[randomx]

Look at it this way.

The US, Canada, and especially NZ , all have very strong self identity and to all the genius Aussies out there knocking it, guess what - we're all the same age and basically come from the same place. The modern side of us anyway . The UK sent 2mil to Aus, not sure how many to NZ, 4mil to Canada , and something like 6mil to the US. And , before the small brain nit pickers bs on about numbers, that's only from memory , the exact makes no difference, don't even matter not the point.

Yettttt, here's us, wth, no identity ? Just wth ???? Even worst allowing ourselves to become American, that's even sadder. Can't even build a motor car to call our own, or much else except dig holes, pretty well says it all.

All l'm saying is that we need to wake thf up . Enough excuses there aren't any look at where those countries are about whom they are, then look at us, even NZ puts us to absolute shame as far as identity goes. Soulless l'm afraid and with the excuses coming out of where the sun don't shine.

But eh, deaf ears l know.

 

 

[old man emu]

My Mum, who is 100 years old, is cared for in an aged persons' residence by people from the Phillipines. They are lovely, caring people. However, although they are fluent in the King's English, sometimes they do not understand the Australian terms for things in a domestic situation. When you think of the age difference between them and Mum, there can be three generations' difference between them. Mum uses terms that she learned as a child, in the 1930s, when there really was a unique Australian vocabulary. A lot of these terms have fallen out of common usage, so her carers have never encountered them. However, Mum has managed to teach them "hoo-roo" as a parting call.

 

 

[octave]

Randomx, what exactly do you want to happen? 

 

I don't totally disagree with you, although I would not put the argument so aggressively.   I passed someone while bush I said Hi and they, obviously being a Kiwi, said Kia Ora, which I think was quite charming. 

[old man emu]

If you travel overseas and take along the habit of looking at a person approaching you and saying "g-day", then you eliminate the risk of being asked if you are English.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

5th generation! What's that, about 150 years?

I reckon to the folks that were living here for somewhere between 45,000 and 60,000 years, that's a flash in the pan.

My mum's family have been here for about the same time, my dad came from Sri Lanka in 1955. Was he less Australian than her? If not, then why is the person who got here from Afghanistan last Tuesday any less Australian than you?

I'm still not an immigrant.

[red750]

Personally you might not be, but your line is.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

47 minutes ago, randomx said:

Yettttt, here's us, wth, no identity ? Just wth ???? Even worst allowing ourselves to become American, that's even sadder. Can't even build a motor car to call our own, or much else except dig holes, pretty well says it all.

There's plenty of Aussie identity out here in the bush. We think "Aussie", we talk "Aussie", and we act "Aussie". Drive out to a rural location and strike up a conversation with a local. If you are Aussie yourself, you'll feel the instant connection of "Australianness", and feel your inherent Aussie identity. Unfortunately it's only in the bush now, the cities have adopted a different identity, what it is, I'm not sure, something strange even they're not sure about.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

11 minutes ago, red750 said:

Personally you might not be, but your line is.

That's right, personally I'm not. And my line weren't either, they were convicts, not immigrants.