Environmental Destruction

[pmccarthy]

This morning's story on the King Valley (Vic) solar farm is most upsetting. Suffice to say the Victorian government has overridden the planning approvals process and ignored environmental assessments to destroy a beautiful part of Australia. The best analogy is the way the USSR destroyed the Aral Sea in Kazakhstan back in the day, in the name of what they saw as progress. We in Victoria are living in a frightening authoritarian state led by what is effectively a dictatorship. 

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

This morning's story on the King Valley (Vic) solar farm is most upsetting. 

Would you provide a link or two so we outsiders can see what is happening there, please?

[facthunter]

Is it the TRUTH OR did you read it in a Murdoch Paper?  Nev

[pmccarthy]

Government greenlight Meadow Creek Solar Farm

Meadow Creek Solar Farm

[Jerry_Atrick]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-24/meadow-creek-solar-farm-charles-sturt-king-valley-farmer-fight/104366698?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

[facthunter]

How is a solar Array, Environmental destruction? One SOB reckons it will catch fire, "Because it's Lithium isn't it?" Wang Floods often and I suppose cattle don't hurt Frogs MUCH.. That area used to be A nationals stronghold.  Sophy Mirabella was the Member who lost her seat, deservedly. She was a protege of T Abot. The Local Paper is a resume of Notables Tea and Scones occasions. Very Inward thinking and Parochial.   Nev

[Siso]

They are putting them on cropping land in SA at the moment. https://community.akayshaenergy.com/brinkworth-bess  Similar thing happened in Goyder wind farm. The council listened to the rate payers and said no. State government overrode the decision. All windfarms go through the state government now. Not one windfarm visible from Adelaide though. They want to build a high building off North terrace but people are trying to stop it. Hypocrites!  They probably will though, more votes in the cities for city minded politicians.

[Siso]

On 02/11/2025 at 3:00 PM, facthunter said:

How is a solar Array, Environmental destruction? One SOB reckons it will catch fire, "Because it's Lithium isn't it?" Wang Floods often and I suppose cattle don't hurt Frogs MUCH.. That area used to be A nationals stronghold.  Sophy Mirabella was the Member who lost her seat, deservedly. She was a protege of T Abot. The Local Paper is a resume of Notables Tea and Scones occasions. Very Inward thinking and Parochial.   Nev

If the winfarms/solarfarms  are so good why not lobby to put them in city parklands like they do over seas. Less transmission because they are in they major load centres. common sense really. Not much around at the moment.

[octave]

21 minutes ago, Siso said:

If the winfarms/solarfarms  are so good why not lobby to put them in city parklands like they do over seas.

Wind turbines need to be located in areas that have sufficient wind (obviously) and suitable topography.  I lived for many years on a bush property relying on solar power.  I would have loved to have installed a small turbine on the roof; however, although there was enough wind to make one viable, there would have been too much turbulence due to the surrounding trees.   Of course, we live in a time of rapid technological advancement. I have seen new turbine designs that probably would work in city areas.

 

I am sure builders of wind farms would love to build them in the city if it were viable, because this would reduce headaches surrounding building transmission wires.  

Edited 19 hours ago by octave

[Jerry_Atrick]

28 minutes ago, Siso said:

If the winfarms/solarfarms  are so good why not lobby to put them in city parklands like they do over seas. Less transmission because they are in they major load centres. common sense really. Not much around at the moment.

You mean like this one in London?

[octave]

There are many examples of wind generation in the city, and there is a lot of potential.  

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

China is making airborne wind turbines now. Reel them up to where the optimal wind speed is. 

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3326920/worlds-most-powerful-flying-wind-turbine-launched-western-china

[facthunter]

Are they just flying a KITE?  The Chinese get things done while We just argue amongst ourselves. Nev

[Siso]

I am talking MW turbines, not toys , pretty sure it is about votes. The majority of people that vote for them live in the citys so they should put up with them. Copenhagen have them everywhere you look around the city. The one in London looks pretty cool. The main word in the last sentence is one. The odd windfarm strewn around the place was OK, but it is just getting out of control. People live in the country to get away from all the industry and ugly built up city views. To do this they make sacrifices like no public transport, 100Km to the closest services SA etc. I came over a hill in the midnorth of SA last Wednesday morning and there was 500MWs of wind in front of me and not one was turning.

[onetrack]

It amuses me that in the 21st century, a vocal percentage of the population rages on about the "visual pollution" attributable to wind turbines - but no-one ever raged on about the "visual pollution" of windmills, which have existed since the 9th century. No-one complained because the windmills were highly beneficial, bringing much-needed water to the surface for use, or ground grains for food.

 

Wind turbines bring us cheap power, a very necessary requirement today. You have to expect periods of light winds or even no wind, it doesn't stay that way for long. Funny how people make a big noise about wind turbines not turning, the same thing happens with windmills, and no-one says anything!

[onetrack]

Look up "Ridgeblade wind turbines" for an "environmentally attractive" and very viable rooftop wind turbine for ridgelines. The Ridgeblade wind turbine utilises the Aeolian wind focus effect, whereby the ridgeline of a building concentrates wind speeds, and this point can produce up to three times the wind energy of a flat surface.

[Siso]

Windmills aren't sitting on 150m towers with 162m rotor. They are generally only 30 feet high. Windmills are also not built in large numbers over every hill in site. (unless you live in a city). Not remotely the same thing.

[onetrack]

While you're whinging and raging at wind turbines, W.A. has had them supplying a sizeable percentage of our power for a couple of decades, and we'll continue to install them, because they work and they're a tried and proven system.

Perhaps in 20 or 30 years, someone will produce a better idea, but they are the system we've got, that we can use now.

 

https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/energy-policy-wa/wind-farms-wa-frequently-asked-questions

 

The Collgar Wind Farm has been in operation very successfully since 2011, and produces good returns for the investors in the company, and produces a lot of power for W.A. homes and businesses.

 

 https://www.collgar.com.au/collgar-wind-farm

 

Edited 14 hours ago by onetrack

[Siso]

I have no problem with windfarms, worked on them for over 10 years. People in the district are just sick of them being on every hill in every direction you look. Like city people wing when high rises go up next door. And we are doing this as an experiment. No one has ever run a grid the size of Australia's on weather dependent generation before. (Australia only has about 7% traditional hydro and unlikely to get more. Some turbines are easily intergrated into a grid. Once you get above 40% the problem start. Good for saving fuel for GT's and coal powered stations.

[octave]

1 hour ago, Siso said:

Once you get above 40% the problem start.

Isn't South Australia already at approximately 44% solar and another 18% from solar?   I do recall a time when people would argue that renewables could never exceed 20%.   Technology continues to move ahead.  I remember the scepticism about the first grid-scale battery.   I can remember Scott Morrison mocking it as being akin to the "big banana" What happened when the Libs were elected to state government? They extended the Hornsdale battery in 2019.   Even the Morrison government, which mocked the battery, backed its upgrade and provided some funding.  Why, because it works.  Today, there are many more batteries in operation and many more planned.

As we argue the toss here, technology continues to advance. Battery chemistries change such that they become cheaper and their materials become more available (sodium batteries, etc.)  What may seem like a viable arguments against renewables today quickly evaporate as technology improves.  

 

Grid Scale Batteries: existing and proposed.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Only the green count.

I could say " I'm getting solar plus a big battery "

One day .

spacesailor

[octave]

12 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Only the green count.

Australians to get at least three hours a day of free solar power - even if they don’t have solar panels

 

Australian households in three states will be promised access to at least three hours a day of free solar power, regardless of whether they have rooftop panels, the federal government has announced.

The “solar sharer” offer will be available to homes with smart meters – which is the majority of homes – in New South Wales, south-east Queensland and South Australia from July next year, with other areas to potentially follow in 2027.

[old man emu]

24 minutes ago, octave said:

households in three states will be promised access to at least three hours a day of free solar power

My interpretation of is the free power is being given simply because teh Grid cannot handle the amount of electricity being generated by solar panels- YET. Given time, I think that the grid will be upgraded to handle what is produced, probably by the use of storage batteries. 

[octave]

4 minutes ago, old man emu said:

My interpretation of is the free power is being given simply because teh Grid cannot handle the amount of electricity being generated by solar panels- YET. Given time, I think that the grid will be upgraded to handle what is produced, probably by the use of storage batteries. 

Correct.  There are times when solar output is curtailed or clipped due to too much power in the grid.  It seems to me that rather than wasting this power, it might as well be utilised. It is similar to the cheaper off-peak tariff overnight.  

I think the motivation is to address the idea that those who can afford solar get really small bills, and those who can't or who live in rental accommodation are shut out.   I think some retailers may already do this.  

[pmccarthy]

The big batteries smooth the peak, they can’t store enough to feed the grid.