Electric car thread

[old man emu]

30 minutes ago, facthunter said:

What a crock of BS that article is. Nev

You have obviously never suffered from motion sickness.

[facthunter]

Of course I have but that's not a likely cause. Nev

[octave]

I can only speak for myself, but especially as I have gotten older, I have become more sensitive to motion sickness, not throwing up, but feeling nauseous in cars and trains.   On our recent trip around NZ on the South Island, we rented a car (IC). As we were travelling with my son and his partner, he did all the driving, so my wife and I were relegated to the back.  As usual, I felt off colour (but suffered in silence), especially on winding roads.  Back on the North Island, we did a road trip in the Tesla, again wife and I sat in the back.  Same winding roads, however, this time I felt completely fine.   I have no idea whether the form of propulsion played any part in it.  I do wonder whether the glass roof played some part in it. I even found I could read something on my phone.

 

I do not know whether this is really a thing or not. I few things do occur to me, though.   There is a suggestion that regenerative braking might be one issue.  I guess one you reduce or turn it off, Simple. I do have doubts about this. As a passenger, I cannot tell if regenerative braking is engaged or not.   Another thing mentioned in the article is the brisk acceleration of most EVs. 

 

Another suggestion in the article is   -   "Another factor is the lack of engine noise. The familiar sound of a gasoline engine helps the brain prepare for movement." -      I mean, if there is anything in this, are we stuck with having noisy vehicles?   

 

I have no idea if there is solid science behind this, but certainly it is the first time I have heard this.  I am sure there was resistance to getting off a horse and into a car or plane.

 

[spacesailor]

Some upmarket EVs have a ' designer motion noise ' , that plays on the  media player .

I think that is a complete waste of time & money .

but the kids may enjoy it !.

Zooooom .

spacesailor

 

[onetrack]

Sounds to me like a biased article spreading FUD over EV's. Possibly, the reason behind any motion sickness in EV's is the very rapid acceleration and deceleration of them, which is much higher than IC-engined cars.

[old man emu]

I agree with Onetrack's suggestion that it is the change in velocity over time (acceleration) that acts on the vestibular systyem of the inner ear. Octave mentions being ill on winding roads. That indicates sideways movement affected the vestibular system. If you are a passenger in car, the bad driving rechnique of the driver can create acceleration effects. (I'm using "accleration" as a term for inceasing and decreasing velocity so I don have to write "deceleration")

[spacesailor]

Also poor 'shock absorbers' . Can brind on travel sickness .

spacesailor

 

[pmccarthy]

"Your average EV has six times more mineral content than a petrol- or diesel-powered vehicle. All those metals need to be dug, scraped, blasted, or leached out of the earth. There is massive demand for batteries as countries eye up ambitious zero-emissions targets. But what's the cost?" 

 

This is the intro from an article in Business Insider. See The true cost of the global resource race to make electric car batteries

 

While I expect most of the people here will leap to discredit MSN or the authors, please do some research first. Let me give you the true situation using copper as an example. This is based on my own data and calculations, so don't ask me for a reference.

 

Minera Escondida operates two open pit copper mines in the Atacama Desert, 170 km southeast of Antofagasta in northern Chile. It is currently the highest producing copper mine in the world. I have been there.

 

Construction of the mine started in 1988, which including the stripping of over 180 million tonnes of waste to get to the orebody. If we amortise that over the last 37 years, it is about 5 million tonnes per year. They mine about 340 million tonnes of rock (ore and waste) per year, so total mining including the pre-strip is 345 million tonnes. From this they produce 1.4 million tonnes of copper. So, they mine 246 tonnes of rock to get one tonne of copper.

 

A Tesla model S contains 82 kg of copper, so it requires mining 20 tonnes of rock. And this is the highest producing mine, others are less efficient. Goldman Sachs are forecasting 73 million EV sales globally in 2040. This would require mining 1.46 billion tonnes of rock if all mining was as efficient as Escondida.

 

And of course there are many other minerals involved. Nickel is currently in the news with Indonesia stripping vast areas of forest to strip-mine lateritic nickel.

 

The madness has to stop before we destroy our planet.

[octave]

Copper can be recycled, oil can't.  

 

In terms of copper availability, according to the International Copper Association.

 

"Despite an ever-increasing demand for copper, there is more of the metal available today than at any other time in history. This, together with the ability to infinitely recycle copper, means that society is extremely unlikely to deplete the copper supply, and copper will continue to contribute to global initiatives, like the SDGs and clean energy."

 

Copper Demand and Long-Term Availability

 

 

 

and according to AI

 

 

While the demand for copper is increasing, especially with the push for renewable energy and electrification, it's highly unlikely we will run out of copper in the foreseeable future. There are large reserves and resources of copper, and recycling efforts and new technologies are expected to help meet the growing demand. 

 

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Abundant Resources:

  Copper is naturally present in the Earth's crust, and there are vast reserves and resources that have been discovered and are potentially profitable. 

   
• Recycling:

  Copper is highly recyclable, and recycling efforts are expected to play a significant role in meeting future demand. 

   
• Innovation and Exploration:

  Mining exploration and new technologies are constantly contributing to the long-term availability of copper. 

   
• Increased Reserves:

  Despite increased demand, reserves of copper have grown, and there's more identified copper available than ever before. 

   
• Demand vs. Supply:

  While some studies predict a potential shortfall in the near future, others suggest that supply will be adequate to meet demand with continued exploration, recycling, and technological advancements. 

   
• Economic Factors:

  Copper prices may fluctuate based on supply and demand, but scarcity is unlikely to be a major long-term issue. 

   
• Importance for Green Transition:

  Copper is crucial for renewable energy technologies like solar panels and electric vehicles, so meeting demand is essential for the green transition.