Electric car thread

[red750]

When you can't get a real horse, how about an e-horse?

 

https://au.pinterest.com/pin/6403624466243887/

[nomadpete]

The E-horse was a marketing failure. Owners had difficulty  plugging in a charger.

[old man emu]

It's too late! The e-Horse has volted.

[facthunter]

A knight on a white charger did a lot of revolting things. Nev

[old man emu]

23 minutes ago, facthunter said:

A knight on a white charger did a lot of revolting things. Nev

Prince Valiant ?????

[Marty_d]

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Off topic !

 

That's NOT a white chrager.

[Litespeed]

Hey..thats my old Charger

 

miss that beast, but not the dodgy rear traction.

[Marty_d]

Someone mentioned Prince Valiant's Charger, so it's not off topic at all!

[onetrack]

Someone told me John Revolta was a hard charger in Greased Lightning.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sometimes I do wonder about people's ability to think logically. We have yet to buy a replacement for the written off mini. It is really my partner's car and she flatly refuses to drive a manual. Which is a pain in the UK, because most cars - even luxury ones - that are sold are manual. So, after fruitlessly searching for a replacement for her that was in budget and auto, I took a look at some EV cars - as they are all "autos". Used car sellers here work a bit dfifferently to Aus (at least when I last purchased a used car in Aus, which was admittedly about 20 years ago). If you know what you want, you can buy online unseen from a reputable seller and if you're not entirely happy with it whtin 2 weeks or something like 1000 miles, they will refund you in full and take the car back. In addition, most offer 12 month warranties under similar terms to new car warranties. And of course, if the car they sell you has a balance of a new car warranty, that transfers to you (as long as the previous owner/s have kept to the terms of the warranty) and they will make up the difference if the balance of the new car warranty is  less than the 12 months. 

 

There is also statutory protections as well that the larger used car dealers adhere to without resistance because they work on a model to stack them high and kiss them good bye. They don't make much on the sale of a car, but on the finance. They don't much like cash buyers, but to ensure they get the volume, they do a lot to preserve their reputation. Some of these are not venturing into making the used EV purchase a virtually risk free proces as they see a big market of better value cars and better demand. 

 

So I was looking at autotrader.co.uk for cars with bettter than 250 mile range. I selected a few, of which the MG ZS 72.x KW was one, and checked out the ads. The reputable dealers have RAC or AA battery tests performed. Fore about £9K, I was looking at 2021 - 2023 models of varying mileage, but averaging arount 30k miles (50k kms). So much for 10% degradation per year of the battery - most were showing 98 - 99% of life left in them, and the lowest was about 96%. I did some research and, ironically, apart from the mini, the real world ranges were not far off the claimed range - probably on average 10% less than claimed range. 

 

The batter checks also stated  claimed range and provided estimated real world ranges at 0 degrees c ambient temperature and 25 degrees C ambient temperatures. At zero degrees, it was about 25%  less range than at 25 degrees. OK, for the cars I was looking at, and taking into account the decreased range at motorway speeds, I should still be able to get to London without needing a charge and have some in reserve. Sticking it on a charger overnight would have me right tor the trip home and assuming it would be 0 - 100% charge. cost me about £35 - half that of the Volvo and about 2/3 that of the now dead mini. 

 

Not to mention the generally lower servicing costs, less to go wrong and therfore more reliability, etc. it sounds like a no-brainer - especialliy when you consider partner's driving - glorified shopping trolley and occasional run to pick up the daughter - on A roads as she doesn't do motorways/highways. So, even then, her range will normally be longer than the average. 

 

So, I decided to broach with her the subject of getting an EV. I was met with a resounding "no" at every turn. But no logical argument to say why not. Just "I want a petrol car..." I was flabbergasted.. Why? Eve3rything she read was about EV fires and lack of infrastructure. Also, when we sell this house, she may end up in a mid-terrace house with no guarantee she can park outside to connect the car to charge. 

 

OK.. the infrastrcutre down here is not what it is in London. But there is good infrastructure. First the chances she won'[t have a driveway are pretty low. But even on that assumption, I explained the area she was looking at has a public charging point and there is no petrol station for about 10 miles or so heading towards Exeter. So, it would be easier for her if she was low on fuel to get the battery topped up than petrol in her car. Then she said she would use it only hopefully once evry couple of weeks and the battery woudl discharge.. I could have put any number of stats in front of her to say that it would take anything from 6 months to a year to discharge a 72kw/h battery not in use.. and that she could expect the lead acid battery to discharge enough to make the car unuseable loing before that. 

 

Still she wasn't having a bar of it. Oh well, she will have to live with it and the costs.

 

But the research I did made EVs even more compelling to me than they were beforehand. 

 

[Edit] I forgot to mention,  most of the batteries still have 5 years of warranty left and a lot of the cars still had 2 - 3 years of warranty left, too.. 

 

Don't get that with the petrol cars of the same age. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

I have found similar EV advantage here in AU, too.

Our Mitzi is getting a bit wheezy, with 340,000k on it, and dropping a new (s/h) motor into it will cost more than she is worth. 

 

There are some nice new EV's coming onto market at last. But the market is not settled yet - who knows which brands will still be around in a few years? 

 

The S/H market looks quite good. And battery degradation (as you noted) doesn't look like being an issue.

 

Next car will definitely be EV.

[Jerry_Atrick]

With the advances in battery technology, especially, I think CATL's advances in sodium battery technology, today's batteries will be so "yesterday" compared to the newer ones coming on stream. I predict the EV market will be a bit like the personal technology market - consistent advances will make not too old technology obsolete and cheap in comparison. Of course, getting the next wave of batteries into existing vehicle platforms isn't just putting a new motherboard into an existing case, so that may slow obsolescence up a bit.. But, I wonder if the battery makers are thinking about backward compatibility with existing vehicle platforms, in terms of physical fit. That may then make it a simple case of adding a battery and changing the motherboard - and possibly a display or two. 

 

Exciting times to come and I think for the consumer, used EVs will still be a viable but well priced alternative. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[onetrack]

I've actually been looking at a 2022-2024 Nissan Leaf as a trial used EV. They're very reliable and well built, but their battery technology is now obsolete, as they don't use inbuilt battery cooling to deal with heat buildup in the battery, which shortens range and battery life. In addition, they use the CHAdeMO charging protocol, which is also becoming obsolete (primarily due to the inability to handle large amperage, as I understand). The Leafs resale is relatively poor, making them a bit a bargain, IMO.

 

Of course, that poor resale is aided by the fact the Leaf is now obsolete, and no longer produced, but every report from Leaf owners that I've perused, says they have spent virtually nothing on Leaf repairs, often after having travelled high kms.

 

I'd rather buy a used Japanese-built EV than a new Chinese EV, as I'm not convinced the Chinese EV build quality is up to scratch yet - and the worst part of Chinese EV's is the lack of parts, and the even lower level of factory backup and support.

 

The Chinese essentially regard their EV's as toasters - it craps itself, don't fix it, go buy a new one. There's a quite a few people making a killing here, buying low km wrecked Chinese cars and selling parts, panels and components off them, because people with Chinese EV's that have been pranged or have developed faults, are finding out they have long waits for parts, there's a multitude of confusing models, language difficulties, a lack of properly-written manuals, and a general "couldn't care less" attitude from the major Chinese manufacturers. BYD, here's looking at you!

 

Edited 13 hours ago by onetrack

[onetrack]

Here's another reason to be wary of Chinese EV's - there will be a major "consolidation" of Chinese EV brands in the next year or two. That means up to 50 Chinese EV brands will vanish.

Some will be allowed to go broke, the others will merge into the bigger Chinese brand names, and those lesser brand names will disappear.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/chinese-electric-car-brands-could-face-closure-amid-a-massive-market-realignment-in-2026/

 

The problem is simply the rush to electrification was too sudden and the desire to provide lots of "gimmicky" features burnt up a lot of Chinese EV companys money.

I believe, eventually, that EV's will become a major part of the motoring environment, but I can't see IC-engine vehicles ever disappearing totally, or disappearing overnight.

 

I'm looking ahead to find a replacement for SMWBO's 2012 Camry Atara. The Camry is a great car, drives beautifully, and rides and handles like it's on rails - and for a 2.5L engine, it has exceptional fuel economy, as well as more than adequate power. On long smooth highway runs, it's not uncommon to see it running at 6.5L/100kms.

 

The problem is, every vehicle I look at, that is a current model hybrid or IC-engine replacement, doesn't have any better fuel economy than the Camry, no matter what they claim.

And from numerous reports I've read, the claimed fuel economy of many hybrids, doesn't match the company claims, in real-life use. Plus, I'm very wary of the complexity of hybrids.

 

I don't need to replace the Camry soon, because it's only done 113,000 kays and it's still in perfect condition. But I'd like to move up to a medium-size SUV, as we both find the Camry is too low now, as far as climbing into and out of it goes. SWMBO in particular is griping about this aspect.

 

Unlike your partner, SWMBO would be happy with an EV, provided it wasn't too gimmicky - but the problem is finding the right balance between running costs, "user-friendliness" of the vehicle, purchase cost, resalability, and reliability. 

 

We've been Toyota owners for over 33 years, and worn out a fair number of Toyotas, and every one of them has provided astounding reliability and low running costs, along with high resale value and ease of reselling the vehicle after we finished with it. But Toyota are lagging a bit with their inbuilt conservativeness and a lack of models that don't appeal. We hired a hybrid Corolla last July and we're weren't impressed with it - especially when it came to refuelling it when we returned it. The fuel savings were nowhere near what I had expected.

 

Add in the "features" complexity, such as the annoying "lane correction", the problem with the seatbelt sensors in the back seat, that went off when we placed a suitcase on the seat (and we struggled to identify what the warning was about), and the fact that the one time I was driving along about 70 kmh, resting my hand on the gearshift - and I accidentally bumped it into neutral - whereby it immediately slammed on full emergency braking, nearly throwing us through the windscreen!! It was lucky there was no-one behind us, or we probably would worn them up the bum.

 

All these things make me think that our next car will need a lot more "features" investigation prior to purchase, than our past purchases. One of the things that annoys me is the propensity to fit sunroofs, black interiors, heated steering wheels, and heated seats to nearly all the current models on offer - and I want none of those features, because we live in a warm climate - which point seems to evade a lot of car manufacturers.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by onetrack

[old man emu]

Imagine if they built a car with the mechanical engineering knowlege learned over the past 60 years (passive  passenger safety, aerodynamics, weight minimisatione etc.) but without the electronic bells and whistles they have been sticking into cars recently. I reckon they would end up with a simple, easily maintained vehicle at a "low" price. Wouldn't matter if it was an ICE or an EV.

[facthunter]

Continued Market Presence is Not assured for Many non Chinese Vehicles as well.  It doesn't PAY to be Brand "rusted on" or completely Loyal either, or TRUST articles such as the One you quote which I have  read in its entirety..Nev

[Marty_d]

Interesting that you say most cars are manual in the UK.

In my experience it's the opposite here, you have a hard time finding a manual.

[onetrack]

Yes, manuals are virtually disappearing in Australia, the gurus are saying it will soon be hard to buy a new manual car here. A lot of the manual transmission manufacturers are either cutting right back, or even preparing to shut up shop, as their market shrinks massively due to EV's and hybrids not needing manual transmissions, and the general preference amongst new car buyers, for automatics.

[Jerry_Atrick]

The last car I bought new in Melbourne was a VS Commodore way back in 1995. I initially walked into the nearest dealer and in response to the approaching salesman, I said I wanted to buy a commodore. While he was rubbing his hands at the prospect of another commission, I said there was one catch - I wanted a manual. His mouth dropped open for a second as he collected his thoughts and claimed he had never seen a manual one in the flesh (except HSVs), let alone sold one. He suggested I call GMH, which I did. They said it would be a special order and would take months but suggested trying country dealers as they get demand for manuals from the country. 

 

As it turned out, Dandenong Holden had two sitting on their forecourt they were desperate to unload. I was only after a base (Executive) model as it was going to do a lot of kms (did something like 80K in its first year - after which I took off the the UK). They loaded it with options for me and gave me a good price, so I bought it. They seriously asked if I wanted the second.. I said only if they could do a buy one, get one free deal. They couldn't, but the salesman in all sincerity said he wished he could have. 

 

When I first moved here, there was nary an automatic, which suited me fine as I prefer manuals - even now. Although automatics back then were a bit clunky compared to todays transmissons, and I am guessing an automatic would be far better than a person these days at correctly gearing for economy and power. 

 

I am sure the more luxury cars here are automatic than manual, but people here like their manuals. I think it is because they are still a few £ cheaper - literally a few £.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

4 hours ago, old man emu said:

Imagine if they built a car with the mechanical engineering knowlege learned over the past 60 years (passive  passenger safety, aerodynamics, weight minimisatione etc.) but without the electronic bells and whistles they have been sticking into cars recently. I reckon they would end up with a simple, easily maintained vehicle at a "low" price. Wouldn't matter if it was an ICE or an EV.

Yes.. it would be great.. Although, without some of the ECUs and electronic gubbins, emmissions would be worse than today. But keep the tech to where it is needed...