Electric car thread

[red750]

When you can't get a real horse, how about an e-horse?

 

https://au.pinterest.com/pin/6403624466243887/

[nomadpete]

The E-horse was a marketing failure. Owners had difficulty  plugging in a charger.

[old man emu]

It's too late! The e-Horse has volted.

[facthunter]

A knight on a white charger did a lot of revolting things. Nev

[old man emu]

23 minutes ago, facthunter said:

A knight on a white charger did a lot of revolting things. Nev

Prince Valiant ?????

[Marty_d]

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

Off topic !

 

That's NOT a white chrager.

[Litespeed]

Hey..thats my old Charger

 

miss that beast, but not the dodgy rear traction.

[Marty_d]

Someone mentioned Prince Valiant's Charger, so it's not off topic at all!

[onetrack]

Someone told me John Revolta was a hard charger in Greased Lightning.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sometimes I do wonder about people's ability to think logically. We have yet to buy a replacement for the written off mini. It is really my partner's car and she flatly refuses to drive a manual. Which is a pain in the UK, because most cars - even luxury ones - that are sold are manual. So, after fruitlessly searching for a replacement for her that was in budget and auto, I took a look at some EV cars - as they are all "autos". Used car sellers here work a bit dfifferently to Aus (at least when I last purchased a used car in Aus, which was admittedly about 20 years ago). If you know what you want, you can buy online unseen from a reputable seller and if you're not entirely happy with it whtin 2 weeks or something like 1000 miles, they will refund you in full and take the car back. In addition, most offer 12 month warranties under similar terms to new car warranties. And of course, if the car they sell you has a balance of a new car warranty, that transfers to you (as long as the previous owner/s have kept to the terms of the warranty) and they will make up the difference if the balance of the new car warranty is  less than the 12 months. 

 

There is also statutory protections as well that the larger used car dealers adhere to without resistance because they work on a model to stack them high and kiss them good bye. They don't make much on the sale of a car, but on the finance. They don't much like cash buyers, but to ensure they get the volume, they do a lot to preserve their reputation. Some of these are not venturing into making the used EV purchase a virtually risk free proces as they see a big market of better value cars and better demand. 

 

So I was looking at autotrader.co.uk for cars with bettter than 250 mile range. I selected a few, of which the MG ZS 72.x KW was one, and checked out the ads. The reputable dealers have RAC or AA battery tests performed. Fore about £9K, I was looking at 2021 - 2023 models of varying mileage, but averaging arount 30k miles (50k kms). So much for 10% degradation per year of the battery - most were showing 98 - 99% of life left in them, and the lowest was about 96%. I did some research and, ironically, apart from the mini, the real world ranges were not far off the claimed range - probably on average 10% less than claimed range. 

 

The batter checks also stated  claimed range and provided estimated real world ranges at 0 degrees c ambient temperature and 25 degrees C ambient temperatures. At zero degrees, it was about 25%  less range than at 25 degrees. OK, for the cars I was looking at, and taking into account the decreased range at motorway speeds, I should still be able to get to London without needing a charge and have some in reserve. Sticking it on a charger overnight would have me right tor the trip home and assuming it would be 0 - 100% charge. cost me about £35 - half that of the Volvo and about 2/3 that of the now dead mini. 

 

Not to mention the generally lower servicing costs, less to go wrong and therfore more reliability, etc. it sounds like a no-brainer - especialliy when you consider partner's driving - glorified shopping trolley and occasional run to pick up the daughter - on A roads as she doesn't do motorways/highways. So, even then, her range will normally be longer than the average. 

 

So, I decided to broach with her the subject of getting an EV. I was met with a resounding "no" at every turn. But no logical argument to say why not. Just "I want a petrol car..." I was flabbergasted.. Why? Eve3rything she read was about EV fires and lack of infrastructure. Also, when we sell this house, she may end up in a mid-terrace house with no guarantee she can park outside to connect the car to charge. 

 

OK.. the infrastrcutre down here is not what it is in London. But there is good infrastructure. First the chances she won'[t have a driveway are pretty low. But even on that assumption, I explained the area she was looking at has a public charging point and there is no petrol station for about 10 miles or so heading towards Exeter. So, it would be easier for her if she was low on fuel to get the battery topped up than petrol in her car. Then she said she would use it only hopefully once evry couple of weeks and the battery woudl discharge.. I could have put any number of stats in front of her to say that it would take anything from 6 months to a year to discharge a 72kw/h battery not in use.. and that she could expect the lead acid battery to discharge enough to make the car unuseable loing before that. 

 

Still she wasn't having a bar of it. Oh well, she will have to live with it and the costs.

 

But the research I did made EVs even more compelling to me than they were beforehand. 

 

[Edit] I forgot to mention,  most of the batteries still have 5 years of warranty left and a lot of the cars still had 2 - 3 years of warranty left, too.. 

 

Don't get that with the petrol cars of the same age. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

I have found similar EV advantage here in AU, too.

Our Mitzi is getting a bit wheezy, with 340,000k on it, and dropping a new (s/h) motor into it will cost more than she is worth. 

 

There are some nice new EV's coming onto market at last. But the market is not settled yet - who knows which brands will still be around in a few years? 

 

The S/H market looks quite good. And battery degradation (as you noted) doesn't look like being an issue.

 

Next car will definitely be EV.

[Jerry_Atrick]

With the advances in battery technology, especially, I think CATL's advances in sodium battery technology, today's batteries will be so "yesterday" compared to the newer ones coming on stream. I predict the EV market will be a bit like the personal technology market - consistent advances will make not too old technology obsolete and cheap in comparison. Of course, getting the next wave of batteries into existing vehicle platforms isn't just putting a new motherboard into an existing case, so that may slow obsolescence up a bit.. But, I wonder if the battery makers are thinking about backward compatibility with existing vehicle platforms, in terms of physical fit. That may then make it a simple case of adding a battery and changing the motherboard - and possibly a display or two. 

 

Exciting times to come and I think for the consumer, used EVs will still be a viable but well priced alternative. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[onetrack]

I've actually been looking at a 2022-2024 Nissan Leaf as a trial used EV. They're very reliable and well built, but their battery technology is now obsolete, as they don't use inbuilt battery cooling to deal with heat buildup in the battery, which shortens range and battery life. In addition, they use the CHAdeMO charging protocol, which is also becoming obsolete (primarily due to the inability to handle large amperage, as I understand). The Leafs resale is relatively poor, making them a bit a bargain, IMO.

 

Of course, that poor resale is aided by the fact the Leaf is now obsolete, and no longer produced, but every report from Leaf owners that I've perused, says they have spent virtually nothing on Leaf repairs, often after having travelled high kms.

 

I'd rather buy a used Japanese-built EV than a new Chinese EV, as I'm not convinced the Chinese EV build quality is up to scratch yet - and the worst part of Chinese EV's is the lack of parts, and the even lower level of factory backup and support.

 

The Chinese essentially regard their EV's as toasters - it craps itself, don't fix it, go buy a new one. There's a quite a few people making a killing here, buying low km wrecked Chinese cars and selling parts, panels and components off them, because people with Chinese EV's that have been pranged or have developed faults, are finding out they have long waits for parts, there's a multitude of confusing models, language difficulties, a lack of properly-written manuals, and a general "couldn't care less" attitude from the major Chinese manufacturers. BYD, here's looking at you!

 

Edited 2 hours ago by onetrack