Victorian election

[pmccarthy]

The left side of the brain controls the right side of the body and vice versa. What we have in politics is a dedicated communist as prime minister. No need for further analysis.

[octave]

1 minute ago, pmccarthy said:

What we have in politics is a dedicated communist as prime minister.

Really, how so? You must have a weird definition of communism.  

 

AI Overview

 

Communism is a political and economic ideology that aims to establish a classless society where the means of production are owned and controlled by the community as a whole, rather than by private individuals or corporations. It envisions a society without private property, social classes, and ultimately, the state itself. 

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

I think you are missing GON's point. 

I think he is pointing out that, just as the brain needs both the left and right to function properly,  politics would benefit if the extreme left was balanced by the extreme right.

 

By the way, I disagree. The extremes do not balance. They just fight

Edited 12 hours ago by nomadpete
spelfixed

[facthunter]

The ADVERSARIAL bit can mean not much Happens. Just division. Dutton just said NO. He's GONE . Extremes of everything are Useless/manic even.  Planes have two wings for Balance  laterally. Cof G for balance length wise.. Thrust equals drag.  All in equilibrium. Harmony. No  fractures. Lovely View.  Good design .    Nev

[pmccarthy]

2 hours ago, octave said:

Really, how so? You must have a weird definition of communism.  

 

AI Overview

 

Communism is a political and economic ideology that aims to establish a classless society where the means of production are owned and controlled by the community as a whole, rather than by private individuals or corporations. It envisions a society without private property, social classes, and ultimately, the state itself. 

 

 

 

Exactly where we are headed. With no manufacturing, no mining and smelting, and collective bargaining setting wages through centralised unions. A majority of the population dependent on government support. 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I think you are missing GON's point. 

I think he is pointing out that, just as the brain needs both the left and right to function properly,  politics would benefit if the extreme left was balanced by the extreme right.

 

By the way, I disagree. The extremes do not balance. They just fight

Why does the human brain have two hemispheres?

 

And why are some humans dominated by only one hemisphere, and other humans dominated by the other hemisphere?

 

Actually, it's a subconscious "choice", you can switch over if you train yourself to do it.

 

Labor "chooses" to be dominated by their right side hemisphere.

 

The conservative Coalition "chooses" to be dominated by their left side hemisphere.

 

Both are conditioned "half-brains", opposing each other in Parliament. 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The voters decided to elect the half-brain that appealed to them the most at the Fed election just gone. This is the base line of our politics, the best half-brain wins.

 

Do ya'll get it now?

[octave]

36 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

Exactly where we are headed. With no manufacturing, no mining and smelting, and collective bargaining setting wages through centralised unions. A majority of the population dependent on government support. 

Is the accepted meaning of communism not having manufacturing, or manufacturing being state-run and controlled?  As I remember it, the Soviet Union was quite industrialised.  

I am not sure if wage bargaining is a new phenomenon or not but it seems to me that collective bargaining has been around for quite some time and through many different governments. Is collective bargaining the hallmark of a communist system?

 

 

47 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

A majority of the population dependent on government support. 

 

You may consider me to be pedantic, but the best figures I can find are that 23.4% of the population (over 15) rely on government benefits as their primary source of income.  Of this figure, a significant portion is those on the age pension (33%). Whether that figure is too high is probably open for debate.   

 

Other than pensioners, what other communist policies are causing you anxiety?  Is Medicare communism?.

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

7 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I have only one problem with your analogy....

At this point in time we really don't have a left leaning side in politics.

The Labor party is the left leaning side, they are currently governing Australia, and with the Coalition in turmoil (due to my curse), Labor has free reign to carry on with it's "half-brain" leftwing politics.

[pmccarthy]

The Soviet Union had very inefficient industries producing crap products. Their workforces were unmotivated. Perhaps they were better than Australia today, which has hardly any industry. 

 

Unions and collective bargaining just about destroyed Australia's mining industry and docks in the 1980s. They were saved by individual contracts and subcontracting parcels of work after the changes brought in by Hawke and Keating and followed up by the Libs. The CFMEU never got sorted out. Nor the fire brigades here in Vic. We are heading back to the bad days.

[octave]

The points you make are reasonable points that could be debated; however, they do not constitute communism unless you have a non-standard definition.     My understanding is that union membership has massively declined since the 80s.   I was interested to learn that enterprise bargaining was originally driven by employers.

 

"Late 20th Century: The Rise of Enterprise Bargaining

The late 1980s saw a growing interest in enterprise bargaining, driven by employers seeking greater flexibility and productivity improvements. 

The Business Council of Australia advocated for enterprise-based bargaining, suggesting it could significantly boost productivity. 

The Keating Labor Government's Prices and Incomes Accord in 1991 further promoted enterprise bargaining agreements. "

 

 

 

I am sure you have many interesting points to make, but the old "reds under the beds" is not persuasive to me, at least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Mccarthy, does your Nirvana have Slaves and people working for Low wages so the Rich get richer and gorgeous GINA runs the SHOW?. Abbott and  (s)Hockey told GM to pee Off and Introduced the Infamous and illegal ROBODEBT. In Contrast  Whitlam made it possible for ordinary humans to go to University till Frazer pulled the stunt of Blocking Supply.  I think WE have the Balance about RIGHT. The PEOPLE HAVE spoken. Libs have an Existential Problem and a lot of work to do. . Nev

[facthunter]

Menzies tried to OUTLAW Communism. That Move was soundly DEFEATED. Communism is NOT a problem in Australia. I doubt any  such Party actually exists. Fascists  and Right Wing Nut Jobs are more of a threat. Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The Army in the 60's was communist, everyone was equal, there was no private property, it was all owned by the State. Orders came down from the top, criticism wasn't tolerated, democracy was non-existent, everyone was dressed the same, and everyone was indoctrinated to think the same, punishment was dished out to anyone who deviated from the system.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Getting back to your point @pmccarthy, it isn't communism that is the issue for Australia; it is the structure of the economy and dumb policy decisions made by both governments and large corporations. 

 

I think this is an interesting video of Jack Ma, who founded Alibaba. Its where the economy invests. Australia, like America makes poor choices when it comes to investments, driven by shorter term greed rather than longer term returns..

 

 

It isn't a race to the bottom. Yeah, cheap labour and other inputs makes you competitive, but Chinese average earnigns are starting to increase:

That latest numbers equates to about $17k USD, which is still low, but look at the trajectory. And like Japan, as the economy really matures (it is considered emerging still)), its currency will appreciate and it will lose its competitive edge. But what has China beein doing? Investing in developing new technology in many secotrs, including engineering and tooling to automate manufacture and make it cheaper to deliver with increasing labour costs. What did Australia and the USA do with their massive profits?

 

You can have a well functioning economy with decent wages for employees to maintain a connected, healthy and motivated workforce, who may bring some ingenuity to the table, too. China isn't perfect by any stretch and they have advantages of a central (communist, I believe) power regime to not totally vested interests get the better of its objectives.

Edited 5 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick