storchy neil Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 as I have stated I do have 12 x 1.5 kw solar panels on my roof this was started before the greens rud Gillard had that brain shattering news that they would pay 9000 dollars to get you to put on solar power now that solar system was for 6 x 1.5 kw panels that would not cover your average daily use of 2 people in a ex commission house let alone with two or three children to ad to the crap they wrote out a little note saying that they would pay me 60 cents gov guaranteed for 15 years for any kw I put back into the grid now at this time I was paying $ 0.168730 per kw for grid power now the day that the solar panels were connected grid power price went to .288730 kw hrs it now .3229 kw hrs I use between 8 kw to 12 kw a day depending on what I am doing neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 THOSE solar panels that have been installed, have rendered unnecessary about 2 new Power Stations being built and IF they had to be coal I doubt any private money would have been made available without unacceptable hand outs and guarantees from GOVERMENTS. Coal only works well at near full chat and it's NOT cheap when you build a new one (2 Billion) and it will get MORE expensive with time unlike renewables that are getting cheaper by the week as the technology improves. I could have had the 60 cents feed in tariff, but that seemed excessive so I took the 25, thinking the other was too good to be true. That dropped to 6.5 and is now a bit over 11 cents in Victoria. Snowy Hydro 2.1 or whatever it's called by Trumble could/ would use COAL power to pump water uphill to let it run down hill again at a 30% loss, but it does operate flexibly but really it's a distraction. It 's NOT hydro then and the output is a small amount compared with the state's (NSW) use let alone help other states. The output of TAS HYDRO is about equal to ONE reasonable sized wind farm. The cost of the FAILED ONCE underwater link is large and duplicating it is probably not justified on a commercial basis. The idea of shuffling power around a grid to "Invent" the idea of competition didn't work. The GRID is expensive and vulnerable and should be owned by the respective governments as a security based situation. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 should I go off grid entirely as at first I did my calculations on solar cost was about $25, 000 plus on going fuel matainence cost off about say $400 a year if I did not need to heat the house keep me fridge going or cool the house run the welder heat the shower water use the toaster boil the jug just may be it would work so my house uses min 8kw to run a day so there for the solar must put double that to cover the days that the 12 panels only put in 3 kw and that has happened I have a feeling that so many solar panels have been installed that the combined number is the eqivelent of a power station but are they producing that power when within 1000 meres there are 12 houses that the panels face west so in the winter the sun does not shine on the until 8 or 9 oclock in the morning one I can see from my front door neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Some face more westerly to supply power for the airconditioners in the afternoon when the peak time happens. If you want to weld with arc you have a problem off grid. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Neil, your power usage numbers seem very high. They are about 10 times my average usage. Is yours commercial? I wish I could get a solar deal like yours, and I sure wouldn't whinge about it if I could! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 hey bruce great news to back up sa power yah gov is buying a couple diesel powered generators sure you be happy with that neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Large solar or wind backed by diesel is a current commercial offered option for remote AREAS. In normal circumstances it averages out reasonably. Would you rather the premier did nothing Neil? Don't forget the once in a hundred years weather SA got and the failure of the link to Victoria and the poor management of the gas fired station that didn't even operate, or have you been listening to Sco Mo's Big BATTERY, BIG Pineapple , BIG koala put down, but NO constructive contribution.? No kind of power will bypass fallen powerlines. What about a bit of applause for the people who worked to get the power up again as quickly as they did, in appalling weather conditions. There's a real world out there. Some live in it. The Pollies don't in many cases. They just manipulate the facts for their own benefit, because it works.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I read recently that in the US the local grid will only support three electric vehicles being charged in any suburban block. So a growth in electric vehicles beyond three per block will need re-wiring of the whole USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 don't get of your bike I will pick up yout pump nev I do have a my back door a 9.5 kva gen out at me mates place a 65 . 5 kva gen and I don't live in a remote area I happen to know a couple off blokes that work on that power line to restore it that's my point a premier that's running around in circles with not a bloody clue oh sheet he is not the only one That great solar con is going to fix the power problems tomorrow the real world says its not why in the hell would you destroy a power station before you can guarantee power to the masses p/s oh that's wright tomorrow never comes neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I looked carefully at going off the grid for my house at the farm. It could be made to work, but it is expensive. And that is for a place with its own firewood. Going off the grid is a bit of an indulgence for rich greenies, unless you can really change your lifestyle. One of the deal-breakers was the fridge. It's the biggest load by far in a normal house.Off the grid systems need to have a top-opening modified chest freezer as it uses one third of the energy of a door-fridge. Now with all the hoo-ha about electricity prices, do you see anybody offering fridges like that? Since you can't buy one, you have to start with a chest freezer and get a Jaycar kit for a new thermostat. My wife rejected the idea outright. She wants a proper door-fridge. The only guy I know who lives off the grid had his woman leave him years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I read recently that in the US the local grid will only support three electric vehicles being charged in any suburban block. So a growth in electric vehicles beyond three per block will need re-wiring of the whole USA. Whilst any new technology drawing from the grid needs to be carefully integrated this does not mean that it is not possible. There are actually advantages to having electric vehicles charging overnight when demand for electricity is low and shutting down sources of generation is expensive. Here is a link to an interview with one of the people that control the British power grid. The whole interview is quite interesting but at the 5-minute mark and again at 9:30 minutes, the effect of mass electric vehicle charging is discussed. here is a link from MIT Utilities Say Electric Cars Could Strain the Grid New technologies have benefits and costs. I imagine integrating the motor vehicle with horse traffic posed some challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I looked carefully at going off the grid for my house at the farm. It could be made to work, but it is expensive. And that is for a place with its own firewood.Going off the grid is a bit of an indulgence for rich greenies, unless you can really change your lifestyle. One of the deal-breakers was the fridge. It's the biggest load by far in a normal house.Off the grid systems need to have a top-opening modified chest freezer as it uses one third of the energy of a door-fridge. Now with all the hoo-ha about electricity prices, do you see anybody offering fridges like that? Since you can't buy one, you have to start with a chest freezer and get a Jaycar kit for a new thermostat. My wife rejected the idea outright. She wants a proper door-fridge. The only guy I know who lives off the grid had his woman leave him years ago. We live off the grid for 22 years, mainly for economic reasons. To get poles and wires from a few kilometres away would have cost us tens of thousands of dollars. I would agree that refrigeration is one of the challenges, we dealt with this by using gas refrigeration worked very well and was quite economical (with recent gas prices perhaps not quite so economical). Our power system was relatively small compared to modern systems. Just for comparison in 1990 when I installed the system 1 60w panel cost me $600 now for $150 you can get a 200-watt panel. I enjoyed living off the grid, however, I accept that at this time that feedback to the grid is probably the way to go although I suspect this will change very soon. I do like the idea of neighbourhood micro grids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 yes bruce that bloody fridge when I bought the mobile home had so called normal fridge gas elect had to run gen all the time when not on main power solar installed flat batteries in two hrs if lucky when the sun went down put in fridge with two doors separate freezer about 5or 6hrs when sun went down that's with batteries that were 4x $500 each don't mention that toaster or the electric jug that did not like them batteries flatten them quicker neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 ... why in the hell would you destroy a power station before you can guarantee power to the masses... This bit I agree with, Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Lots of we "rich greenies" grew up off-grid, so we're not in a big hurry to go back to kero lamps. We won't have to wait long before self-contained systems will be affordable enough for us go off grid again and keep our mod cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 yes bruce that bloody fridge when I bought the mobile home had so called normal fridge gas elect had to run gen all the time when not on main powersolar installed flat batteries in two hrs if lucky when the sun went down put in fridge with two doors separate freezer about 5or 6hrs when sun went down that's with batteries that were 4x $500 each don't mention that toaster or the electric jug that did not like them batteries flatten them quicker neil Neil that does sound like a very poorly designed power system. In 1990 when I designed my home system I was advised that for smaller systems use that required generating a lot of heat such as cooking or heating was not viable (for a small system). Making toast or boiling a kettle from small battery banks is just not practical. In my house we ran low voltage lighting, an inverter ran TV and computers. Heating was by wood harvested from the block. this also provided hot water and sometimes cooking. Later on, we added gas cooking and gas hot water backup. Large appliances were powered by a generator. Washing day was ideally scheduled for when batteries were low so we were charging whilst running the washing machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 In all seriousness, your fridge is one of those vampire loads (just keeps on sucking away) most suited to individually running off the grid. It's not that hard to work out a long term power budget for its demand. Nowadays, I'd set up a nice big panel or two, with a nominal battery storage, and a little inverter. Then a low voltage cutout relay that dropps the fridge back to normal mains in the event of a shortfall from sun. For me, the budget works out at saving me about $300 per annum, for a initial expense of less than $1000. From year 3 I'm ahead. Nothing to do with dreaded lefties or Greenies. And Neil can stop fretting about me pushing his power bill up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 My neighbour has been off grid for about 10 years. They have what I consider a primitive, mostly 12v setup. ( This year he's promised to mount the panels on the roof). They do run a normal looking fridge, lighting, TV, computers, somehow got a 12v washing machine, and contrary to what some here might think, his wife is still with him. It all comes down to living within your means. They do keep an eye on batteries, and if they use 30% they kick over the (cheap) little Genset and put on the washing machine. They don't try to use an electric toaster or jug. It proves solar is viable, it doesn't have to be exotic and expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 My daughter, partner and three kids are off grid. They aim to keep the batteries above 80%. Have a freezer etc on the system. House is passive solar so hardly any heating needed. It all seems to work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 After the oil shocks of the 70s every coffee table had a book about passive solar designs and permaculture. We built our passive solar house in the early 80s. When my kid took me around looking at project homes I often asked if they had any solar designs. All I got was blank looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 We had a 3-way fridge in the caravan. It was ok in winter...I think they come from Sweden. Is there a gas full-size fridge that is affordable and works in summer? I don't know of one. I do know that the Alice Springs gliding club exploded their club-house because of a gas fridge and a kero fridge in a closed room. The pilot light on the gas fridge went out but it still bled gas which was eventually ignited by the kero pilot light. At the farm, we are off the grid for water and sewage and its great, so the idea of being off the electric grid is attractive, and the new led lights are much better than the old incandescents as regards energy. It's just that darn fridge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 There is a reasonable way to get a simple, smaller domestic fridge for 12volts. - as long as you don't want automatic defrost which wastes heat and energy anyway. For years now there have been fridge guys pulling out 240v compressors and replacing them with Danfoss 12v compressors. It used to be a better deal than trying to run a 240v fridge on an inverter. Nowadays you can pick up a 1.5kw sine wave inverter for a bit over $200 so it's probably cheaper to go that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 A lot of yacht's that family s live aboard permanently, use the Danfoss system. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 bruce when in Darwin after that bloody fridge wasted food three times got talking to a bloke about fridges he told me to buy one in Darwin cause it will work up here and down south about 3000 dollars latter new fridge installed in Darwin gas electric full size never had any trouble after ten years tried to get one the same a couple years latter for a mate don't sell em here the sales man said but his model is the same yeh the same as the one that's on the tip in Darwin neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Here you go... we've got more locations for pumped Hydro than we need. Bit of forward planning wouldn't go astray right now. 'Thousands' of pumped hydro opportunities in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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