Electricity prices

[Marty_d]

Looks like the power companies are changing their billing - increasing the fixed daily charges while dropping (in some cases) the kWh rate.

Wonder if this is driven by the uptake of home batteries - they're losing money from the supply of power so they're charging more to stay connected to the grid?

 

Australia politics live: energy minister asks regulator to investigate big jump in power companies’ supply fees https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2026/jun/24/australia-politics-live-war-memorial-tax-reform-greens-labor-deal-ndis-review-coalition-question-time-anthony-albanese-angus-taylor-ntwnfb?CMP=share_btn_url

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-06-24/why-power-bill-may-rise-despite-lower-default-market-offer/106830428

[nomadpete]

Not unexpected.

[nomadpete]

I hope someone points out that this will result in the public buying more solar panels? I'll make sure my surplus solar power covers the connection fee....

 

until I am confident I can disconnect. Then those companies will find they killed the goose.

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

those companies will find they killed the goose.

But there are still a lot of goslings who must remain connected to grid.

[nomadpete]

Just now, old man emu said:

But there are still a lot of goslings who must remain connected to grid.

Unfortunately that is true.

But the ball is rolling, and so far this year, about 400,000 home batteries have been installed this year.

 

The whole system is changing. This transition is going to require some socialist support for those who are disadvantaged by the changes.

 

[Siso]

Pity industry will have trouble disconnevtibg to the grid. The more people that disconnect the harder it will be to compete. China are laughing there heads off i reckon

[octave]

10 minutes ago, Siso said:

Pity industry will have trouble disconnevtibg to the grid. The more people that disconnect the harder it will be to compete. China are laughing there heads off i reckon

A lot of industries are already exploring renewables and some are already off grid such as parts of the mining industry.  As solar and batteries get cheaper, it will be irrational for households to connect to the grid merely to support the grid for the benefit of industry.  

[facthunter]

If you were on gas the situation will be worse. The connection fee for Power is at  present about 150%of the price of hiring a set of Oxy-acetylene bottles. Eventually the system will be able to process the feed in Tariffs better and the Payment will be a bit more realistic.. More storage anywhere will bring that change. Nev

[old man emu]

I asked my local Toyota dealer if he thought he would be selling EV work vehicles to local agriculturalists. I put up the range limit point. He said that a lot of them were installing solar systems and those systems would enable recharging of EVs. Then I considered how the locals used their work vehicles and came to the conclusion that those vehicle were not driven on long trips. Most trips into the local town wouldn't be more than 50 kms and back. From my place to Dubbo and back is only 150 kms, plus about 10 for running around in Dubbo. That sort of distance is only about half the range of a full charge. We all know that cockies have sedans and SUVs for the longer trips. They are likely to be hybrids. 

[Siso]

A lot of mining is already disconnected from the grid. I'm surprised there is not more solar and wind tied directly to them as it would cut down the price of diesel as well as freight. The wtg  company I worked for was in talks with a couple, but nothing came of it.

[octave]

10 minutes ago, Siso said:

A lot of mining is already disconnected from the grid. I'm surprised there is not more solar and wind tied directly to them as it would cut down the price of diesel as well as freight. The wtg  company I worked for was in talks with a couple, but nothing came of it.

Australia has quite a few mines that either run partly on renewable energy or are among the world's leaders in renewable-powered mining. Very few large mines operate on 100% renewables all the time, but several are regularly achieving 50–90% renewable penetration and occasionally reaching 100% for extended periods.

Major Australian mines using renewable energy

Mine	Commodity	Location	Renewable Energy System	Renewable Share
Agnew Gold Mine	Gold	WA	Wind, solar, battery, gas microgrid	Typically 50–60%, up to 85–95% at times (Australian Renewable Energy Agency)
Bellevue Gold Mine	Gold	WA	Solar, wind and battery hybrid system	Designed for ~80–90%; achieved 155 consecutive hours on 100% renewables (Reddit)
Kathleen Valley Mine	Lithium	WA	Solar, wind, battery, gas hybrid	Around 60–80% renewable energy (The Australian)
Mt Weld Mine	Rare earths	WA	Renewable hybrid power system	Reportedly exceeded 95% renewable share during one quarter (Reddit)
St Ives Gold Mine	Gold	WA	Large solar and wind project under development	Expected to provide over 70% of site power (Reddit)
DeGrussa Mine	Copper/Gold	WA	Solar farm with battery storage	One of Australia's pioneering renewable-powered mines (Australian Renewable Energy Agency)
Weipa Mine	Bauxite	QLD	Large solar installation	Partial renewable supply (Australian Renewable Energy Agency)
Tropicana Gold Mine	Gold	WA	24 MW solar, 24 MW wind, battery system	Significant renewable contribution to mine power (Solar Now)

The leaders

Agnew Gold Mine

Often regarded as the pioneer. It was the first Australian mine to use large-scale wind generation as part of a mine microgrid. The site combines:

• 18 MW wind farm

• 4 MW solar farm

• Battery storage

• Gas backup

It typically obtains 50–60% of its energy from renewables and can reach much higher levels under favourable conditions. (Australian Renewable Energy Agency)

Bellevue Gold Mine

Currently one of the most ambitious renewable mining projects in Australia. The mine recently reported operating for 155 consecutive hours (over six days) entirely on renewable energy with diesel and gas generators switched off. (Reddit)

Kathleen Valley Lithium Mine

A good example of a new-generation mine being designed around renewables from the outset rather than adding them later. It uses a large solar-wind-battery system and has reportedly achieved renewable shares above 80% in some periods. (The Australian)

An interesting pattern

Most of Australia's renewable-powered mines are in remote Western Australia. That's because:

• Diesel fuel is expensive to transport.

• Many mines are off-grid.

• WA has excellent solar resources.

• Wind and solar can often generate electricity more cheaply than diesel generation.

As a result, renewable energy is often adopted primarily for cost savings and reliability rather than environmental reasons alone. The economics can be very attractive for remote mining operations. (Australian Renewable Energy Agency)

If you're interested, I can also list the major iron ore mines (BHP, Rio Tinto, Fortescue) and explain how far they have progressed toward running on renewable energy, because the Pilbara iron ore sector is currently undergoing a huge transition.

[pmccarthy]

Don’t confuse site power with total power which includes loaders, trucks etc.

[octave]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Don’t confuse site power with total power which includes loaders, trucks etc.

Yes that is true. The comment I was addressing was this:

8 hours ago, Siso said:

I'm surprised there is not more solar and wind tied directly to them as it would cut down the price of diesel as well as freight.

So lets see what is going on with mining vehicles and machinery.

 

For many mines, getting renewable electricity for crushers, conveyors, processing plants, camps and offices is relatively straightforward. The really difficult challenge is replacing the huge diesel haul trucks, loaders, trains and other heavy equipment.

Where the industry is today

Processing plants

Many Australian mines are already running a large portion of their fixed equipment on renewable electricity because the power comes from the site's solar, wind and battery systems. This includes:

• Crushers
• Conveyors
• Mills
• Pumps
• Processing plants
• Workshops and accommodation facilities

These are the easiest loads to electrify.

Haul trucks

The giant haul trucks are the biggest diesel users. A single large haul truck can burn millions of litres of diesel per year.

The major miners are now trialling battery-electric trucks:

• BHP and Rio Tinto are jointly trialling 240–250 tonne battery-electric Caterpillar haul trucks at Jimblebar in the Pilbara.
• Fortescue has developed its own high-power charging systems and expects its first operational 240-tonne battery-electric haul truck to enter service in 2026.

Fortescue is probably the most aggressive

5

Fortescue's strategy is not just to build renewable power stations but to electrify the fleet as well.

The company is:

• Building more than 1.4 GW of solar generation in the Pilbara.
• Installing large battery systems.
• Deploying battery-electric haul trucks.
• Operating electric excavators.
• Testing electric dozers, graders and loaders.

Their goal is to eliminate fossil fuels from their terrestrial iron ore operations by 2030.

 

Mining railways are also beginning to electrify.

BHP has taken delivery of Australia's first purpose-built battery-electric heavy-haul locomotives for testing on its Pilbara rail network. These locomotives use large battery packs and regenerative braking.

How much diesel is still being used?

For most Australian mines today:

Equipment	Renewable/Electric Status
Processing plants	Often 50–100% renewable electricity
Site buildings	Often 50–100% renewable electricity
Conveyors and crushers	Often renewable-powered
Light vehicles	Increasingly electric
Excavators	Early electric deployment
Haul trucks	Mostly diesel, some electric trials
Trains	Early battery-electric trials
Drill rigs	Limited electric deployment

So when you hear that a mine is "80% renewable", that usually means 80% of its electricity, not necessarily 80% of all its energy use. Diesel trucks can still account for a very large share of total energy consumption.

This is one reason critics sometimes argue that mining companies overstate their progress, while the companies respond that the technology for replacing 250-tonne haul trucks is only now becoming commercially viable. The next five years will probably determine whether battery-electric mining fleets become mainstream in Australia.

 

 

[onetrack]

I read where Twiggy went to Caterpillar and asked them to build him a fleet of battery-powered big haul trucks. But they refused, saying the idea wasn't practical.

So Twiggy went to Liebherr and asked the same question, they said "Yes" - so Liebherr are building the electric haul trucks for Twiggys operations.

 

But 240 tonne trucks are only modest-sized trucks in the scheme of things. 400 tonners are common in numerous big mines.

 

Cat did develop the "hybrid" diesel/electric D7E tractor in 2009, and have sold quite a few of them, about 10,000 units I STR.

But the electric D7E has a diesel engine driving an alternator, which then drives a big electric motor, which drives the tracks - similar to diesel-electric locomotives.

 

Essentially, the only savings with a diesel-electric crawler tractor or haul truck is in the transmission cost, with reduced costs as regards manufacturing and repair costs - and a fuel saving from the engine running at a set speed.

The cost savings have to increase in the long run with all-electric power, although the up-front costs for electrification are massive, and the battery costs are also horrendous.

 

It's yet to be revealed what battery technology Liebherr are going to use in Twiggys haul trucks - whether it's Lithium or Sodium. The Sodium batteries are starting to catch up to Lithium as regards power output, and they're much cheaper. But the Sodium batteries are heavier. In a mining truck application, the weight factor may not be such a problem as one might envisage.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by onetrack

[octave]

I believe there are electric vehicle operating in mines in Australia right now. 

 

Battery-electric mining vehicles are operating in Australian mines today, but battery-electric haul trucks are mostly still in the trial or early deployment stage.

Already operating today

Fortescue is operating:

• 16 electric excavators in the Pilbara
• Electric drill rigs
• Various smaller electric mining equipment being tested and introduced into service

Fortescue says each electric excavator saves about one million litres of diesel per year.

Battery-electric locomotives are also now being commissioned on Fortescue's Pilbara railway. These are not prototypes sitting in a workshop—they are being prepared for operational use on the rail network.

Giant haul trucks (the really big ones)

This is where things get interesting.

BHP, Rio Tinto and Caterpillar are currently trialling two battery-electric Cat 793 haul trucks at the Jimblebar iron ore mine in the Pilbara. These are 240-tonne-class trucks operating in real mine conditions, but they are still part of a formal trial rather than routine fleet deployment.

Fortescue has fitted out its first battery-electric Liebherr T264 haul truck and has commissioned a 6 MW fast charger capable of charging a truck in about 30 minutes. However, Fortescue has stated that its first operational battery-electric haul truck is expected to enter service later in 2026.

So the answer is:

Equipment	Operating in Australian mines now?
Electric excavators	Yes
Electric drill rigs	Yes
Battery-electric locomotives	Yes (commissioning/early operation)
Small electric mine vehicles	Yes
240-tonne battery haul trucks	Trialling now
Large battery haul truck fleets	Not yet

The biggest surprise for many people is that excavators may electrify before haul trucks. An excavator works in a relatively fixed location and can be supplied power more easily, whereas a haul truck may need to climb several hundred metres carrying 200–300 tonnes of ore, making battery size, charging speed and mine-site power infrastructure much more challenging.

If you're wondering whether these trucks actually make economic sense, the answer appears to be increasingly "yes" for remote mines. A large haul truck can consume several million litres of diesel over its life, so even expensive batteries can be worthwhile if charging infrastructure and renewable power are available. That's one reason companies like Fortescue are pushing so hard—they believe electrification will eventually reduce operating costs as well as emissions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[octave]

Meanwhile in China

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Trailing cable electric excavators have been around for fifty years at least.all the really big shovels and draglines are electric. Also the bucket wheel excavators in the Latrobe Valley. Electric wheel haultrucks, with diesel engines driving generators, were developed in the 1960s and widely used. Underground, we had trolley wire electric haul trucks from Kiruna at Mount Isa in the 1980s. The first trolley wire electric locomotives were used in Victorian gold mines and at Broken Hill South from 1902 onward.

[octave]

I guess what is new are battery-powered trucks and autonomous trucks, such as in China and Canada.

 

 

[Litespeed]

The economics would quickly change if they paid excise on fuel like they should..

[octave]

This is pretty impressive: an electric mining truck that does not need to be charged.   Note, though, that it only works in a specific setting.   The trick is that it travels uphill empty and downhill fully laden.  Through regenerative braking, it generates more than is required to travel uphill again (empty)

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The trolley wire Kiruna trucks were quite popular in Europe. But they failed at Mt Isa as they produced too much heat from braking downhill. They did not have batteries, just produced the braking effect by sending the power into big resistor banks. Many mines in Europe and Canada have heaters at the surface just to stop the intake shaft from freezing up.

 

[facthunter]

Excise is to Make and repair roads. If you don't go on roads, why should you pay the excise? . Nev

[octave]

 

 

Only half of petrol tax is going back into roads say motoring groups, amid calls to cut fuel excise

Edited 4 hours ago by octave

[Litespeed]

56 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Excise is to Make and repair roads. If you don't go on roads, why should you pay the excise? . Nev

Excise is sent to general revenue and should be paid by all. 

My boat does not use roads, should I be exempt?

 

No.

[onetrack]

Those Huaneng Ruichi 90 tonne all-electric dump trucks use battery swap technology - something I have been saying for some time, is necessary for speed of operation. The battery swapping is automated and carried out in minutes.

Then they can get on with charging the flat batteries at their leisure, when excess or cheap power is available.