Middle East conflict

[willedoo]

The best way is to keep whittling them down until they fall apart in a mess, but does Israel and the US have enough readily available stockpiles of munitions to see the distance. The pace of things might depend on who runs out first.

[onetrack]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

I saw some footage of one rescued pilot being looked after by Kuwaitis. It said he was in an F-15 but don't know if that was accurate or not. If they are Airforce they would be F-15s, F-18s Marine Corps or Navy. Martin Baker seats in the F-18s, ACES II in the F-15.

The latest reports are saying the aircraft were F-15's.

[Down East]

On 01/03/2026 at 5:32 AM, old man emu said:

It used to be that the POTUS had to seek the approval of Congress before declaring war. But that was back in the day when the USA was a democracy.

 

Your sarcasm aside, you are being overly simplistic. 

 

The war powers act states that the president is required to inform congress within 48 hours of military action, and he is limited to 60 days without a congressional vote. 

 

Congress must vote to declare/fund military actions that go past 60 days. 

 

Obama could have been impeached for his 2011 Libya bombing actions by continuing the bombing beyond the 60 day limit.  Congress could have cared less.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

9 hours ago, onetrack said:

Lust for oil has been the root cause of many wars over the last 80 or 90 years - but in this case, I'm not so sure it plays as big a part in the attempted removal of the regime. But Trump and Americans in general nurse a long-held and extremely bitter grudge against Iran, largely due to the constant chants of "Death to America", the 1979-81 hostage crisis, the bombing of the USS Cole and the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon.

I don't doubt this for a minute., but Iran has one of the world's largest known reserves of oil.. and el Chumpo would love for the USA to have first dibs at knockdwon prices, if not control the reserves. Since he meeds to find a supply his sponsors can use (cf. Venezuela), then, I bet there will be large contracts to be had - by US firms. 

 

[red750]

The wife of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has died from injuries sustained in the bombing which killed her husband.

 

Social media in America is calling for Barron Trump to be enlisted in the military and sent into battle. However, he has a medical out. He is 6ft 9in tall, and the height limit for military recruitment is 6ft 8in. He is too tall to fit in confined spaces like tanks and aircraft.

[old man emu]

10 minutes ago, red750 said:

He is too tall to fit in confined spaces like tanks and aircraft.

What are the dimensions of a foxhole?

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, Down East said:

you are being overly simplistic. 

I accede. I'm not an expert on the complexities of US law. But the message sent out by critics has suggested that permission is needed before action is taken. Obviously that is not the case. The problem with the culture of the USAis that it is militaristic. It seem to me that teh World's Policeman has finally gone rogue.

[facthunter]

The Dept of Defence is now the Dept of WAR.  Nev

[nomadpete]

11 hours ago, willedoo said:

It's good that they've set a goal of regime change instead of the usual half baked adventures kicking the can down the road.

Yes but...

 

As usual, the USA has not proposed any plan, or perthway to a regime change. As usual, the old regime has a sucession plan to continue power.

As usual, USA has no plan for what to do next. Just go in all gunz blazing and expect the locals to miraculously unite their mobs and create a whole new system of government.

 

Never worked before, unlikely to now.

 

P.S.

With the present state of amazing intel, and amazing precision strike capability, why did they destroy a school full of kids?

[onetrack]

Only Congress has the constitutional ability to declare War on an American enemy - but the President has full authority, as the U.S. military C-in-C , to attack any enemy of America, who is believed to be plotting any terror attack against America.

 

Trump has long railed against any effort by Congress to control his decision-making, believing he alone has complete control of the major decision-making in America.

 

What we should be all concerned about is the religious fundamentalists in America and Israel are the ones driving all this Middle East war activity. Not a lot different to the extreme religious fundamentalists in the Middle Eastern countries.

Hegseth is on a par with an Ayatollah, believing he has the God-given power to decide who lives or dies in the region. And he's a raging drunk, along with his Christian Fundamentalist beliefs. Plus, many U.S. military leaders, or former military leaders, including Mark Kelly, believe he doesn't have the mental capacity for the job he's been given.

 

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2026/can-president-go-to-war-without-congress-iran-strikes/#:~:text=Article I%2C Section 8 of,when Franklin Roosevelt was president.

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, red750 said:

for Barron Trump to be enlisted in the military and sent into battle. However, he has a medical out. He is 6ft 9in tall, and the height limit for military recruitment is 6ft 8in. He is too tall to fit in confined spaces like tanks and aircraft.

No need to look for bonespurs?

[facthunter]

Hegseth is as extreme as anyone I've EVER heard of. Bat $#!t CRAZY.   With THINKING like this, there is no Hope.  Nev.

[Down East]

45 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I accede. I'm not an expert on the complexities of US law. But the message sent out by critics has suggested that permission is needed before action is taken. Obviously that is not the case. The problem with the culture of the USAis that it is militaristic. It seem to me that teh World's Policeman has finally gone rogue.

If the Euro's hadn't been so weak for the past 75 years, things may have turned out different.  They enjoyed bragging about their free health care and enlightened point of views, but they let their militaries become nothing but little boys clubs.

 

Look at the Ukraine for example.  The Euro's didn't give a shit about the Ukraine until Putin actually sent the tanks in towards the capitol.   They didn't do a single thing about Crimea.  They didn't do a single thing about Ukraine's Donbas region.  They all sat back and bitched about the USA for not stopping it. 

 

Every time the a Euro sovereignty/economy has been threatened................................they begged for American carriers.

 

Look at Germany.   It took a US president to stare down the Soviets and reunify their country.

 

I'm not excusing the US for it's Iraq/Iran blunders, but the world would be a much more dangerous place without it.

 

You said rogue?     Iran has been at war with the USA for 47 years.  They have been at war with various Arab neighbors for decades.  They have been at war with Israel for decades.  They financially support Hama, Hezbollah, and many other radical groups throughout the middle east.  Iran supplies Russia with thousands of drones being used against the Ukraine.

 

Let the liberals cry all they want about Iran.  They are the ones that appeased these radicals to the tune of billions of dollars and made fools of themselves..

 

 

[nomadpete]

I'm curious about what events might follow.

Iran supplies China with a lot of oil. So they have skin in the game.

 

Between the Iran attacks, Venezuela, and maybe Cuba  has USA given a green-light to China’s expected takeover of Taiwan? Or at least moved it up,since they have plenty of military toys.

The west wouldn’t have a leg to stand on to object and couldn't stop it?

[facthunter]

Trumps antics are devoid of Principle. morality and ethical considerations and are only useful as an EXAMPLE of what shouldn't be done by anyone in a Decent world. Trump wouldn't cop what HE dishes out to others and no-one else should have to cop it either.  A Lawless world is safe for NONE. Nev 

[Jerry_Atrick]

https://www.theage.com.au/world/middle-east/trump-s-attacks-are-not-about-iran-he-s-after-a-much-bigger-fish-20260303-p5o6ws.html

 

Looks like big oil may be an objective after all

[randomx]

Gees , was pretty surprised. Heard some professor this morning predicted the last few wars the US was involved in and reckons they'll lose this same reasons.

Says Iran always knew this was coming and prepared 20yrs and like Afghanistan was it- not into wars, buttt they also outlasted the US , they actually said later something like the US has all the fancy stuff but we have time, lots of time. Says it's exactly the same thing here and the US will run out of fancy shyt they'll spend too much , lose and go home.

Reckons they expect it done in 3wks but these guys are good for 20yrs if it takes that long.

 

just sayin

Edited 6 hours ago by randomx

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Iran was/is globalizing the Intafarta.

[pmccarthy]

I'm glad that Trump has done something to sort those crazy bas-rds out. They have been responsible for much of the grief and destruction in the world for the past 30 years. If only he felt the same about Putin, he would get serious helping the Ukrainians.

[red750]

Saw a video this morning of Hegseth saying this is not about regime change. He repeated it twice, regardless of what DJT has been saying. It's about getting their hands on Iranian oil.

 

[rgmwa]

All the talk seems to be about Trump and his motives and expectations, but there's not much being said about Netanyahu in initiating this war. Trump was obviously intent on doing something because he sent the Navy and Airforce into the region, but I'll bet he didn't know what he was going to do with them. However, when Netanyahu got tipped off that Khamenei was going to be in a meeting with his senior leadership, there was no way he was going to pass up the opportunity to knock him off. I think he probably said to Trump, "I'm going after Khamenei, and If you don't do something the Iranians are going to lob missiles at your fleet and air force so you had better get in first before they respond".  That probably pushed Trump into action but left him floundering for excuses to convince the US population that America was in dire peril from Iran. Nobody knows how this ends, least of all Trump. All Trump wants at this point is a reason to declare victory and walk away because he can't afford politically to string this out for too long. Therefore he'll deal with anyone in Iran who will talk to him and make him look good. Meanwhile, the Iranians are not lying down and are doing their best to drag the rest of the region into the war. Netanyahu is now attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon. Overall, it's a mess.

[facthunter]

There's enough HATE there to cover everything. Iranians are some of the Most educated People in the world. They didn't deserve the deal they got with the Mullah's who rule with an Iron Fist. Nev

[old man emu]

 Iran is often grouped with Arab nations, but it is not an Arab country. Its people are largely Persian. The Persian civilization, originating in modern-day Iran, was a dominant ancient superpower (c. 550 B.C.E. – 651 C.E.) renowned for vast territorial expansion under the Achaemenid, Parthian, and Sasanian dynasties. Founded by Cyrus the Great, it was known for its bureaucratic efficiency, infrastructure like the Royal Road, religious tolerance, and cultural influence across Asia and the Middle East. The Persian Empire is the name given to a series of dynasties centered in modern-day Iran that spanned several centuries—from the sixth century B.C. to the 20th century A.D.

 

In other words, the Iranians are not towel-heads. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 hours ago, Down East said:

If the Euro's hadn't been so weak for the past 75 years, things may have turned out different.  They enjoyed bragging about their free health care and enlightened point of views, but they let their militaries become nothing but little boys clubs.

 

Look at the Ukraine for example.  The Euro's didn't give a shit about the Ukraine until Putin actually sent the tanks in towards the capitol.   They didn't do a single thing about Crimea.  They didn't do a single thing about Ukraine's Donbas region.  They all sat back and bitched about the USA for not stopping it. 

 

Every time the a Euro sovereignty/economy has been threatened................................they begged for American carriers.

 

Look at Germany.   It took a US president to stare down the Soviets and reunify their country.

 

I'm not excusing the US for it's Iraq/Iran blunders, but the world would be a much more dangerous place without it.

 

You said rogue?     Iran has been at war with the USA for 47 years.  They have been at war with various Arab neighbors for decades.  They have been at war with Israel for decades.  They financially support Hama, Hezbollah, and many other radical groups throughout the middle east.  Iran supplies Russia with thousands of drones being used against the Ukraine.

 

Let the liberals cry all they want about Iran.  They are the ones that appeased these radicals to the tune of billions of dollars and made fools of themselves..

 

 

Welcome to the forums, @Down East

 

I pretty well agree with the sentiment of the above, except universal health care and enlightenment doesn't necessarily mean giving up sovereignty, which much of Western Europe have done, as well as a lot of the rest of the western world. If you're not a superpower, you have to forge alliances through more compromises than the superpowers.. Post WWII, and with the EU, Europe did have a chance to become a superpower, but they dilly-dallied.

 

An old Chinese saying is that political power grows from the barrel of a gun. As much as we like to think it's not true, it is. Diplomacy works much better when you have a decent arsenal and those loyal who know how to use it. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I wanted to edit the post with the below, but ran out of time:

 

Europe showed its weakness and timidness in the early days of the Ukraine war. Given the security guarantees already provided to de-nuclearise, if that is a word, has been reneged on, and Europe even kept funnelling millions of Euros daily to Russia while offerin pittance to the country that is the buffer between them and Russia - just because they didn't want to pay a little more to stay warm that winter was enough to change my mind on the so called progressive and enlightened views they hold.. They fail to recognise there is a balance that has to be struck, and that sometimes, you have to endure some hardship to preserve those values as it is clear a lot of the world don't agree with them and will try to exploit those views for their gain.

 

We are now seeing the same with Iran. There is no doubt that Chump couldn't really care about the average Iranian in the street. There is little doubt that Netanyahu is motivated by anything other than his self preservation first and Israel's second (although, yes, it may be the other way around). But, Iranians are dancing in the streets amidst bombs reigning down on them as the potential of freedom. They would also know that the road ahead is long and uincertain, but the road starts here. There is an opportunity to improve the lives of Iranians and somewhat stabilise the middle east at the same same time. 

 

Should Chump and Net have waited for a UN Security Council Resolution before going in? Maybe, except that those that cite international law being not followed and therefore no justification for the attack forget two things. For Israel, they are constantly attacked either by Iran or its proxies, so given the current regine of Iran sponsors its proxies, they are a clear threst to Israel and attack it. For the US, there is the reduced threat of terrorsim on their own soil, but a constant wage of war against them. And of course, there is oil to be had. The US's justification is less clear if any at all, apart from standing by and supporting an ally and reaping the potential rewards for it. Now, speaking of standing by and supporting allies, I am guessing most people would say Chump has shown that is no longer the case, especially with Europe. That may be the case, but a Nato country's air base was attacked in Cyprus and nary a word from anyone - not even s warning of do it again, and article 5 will be looked at very seriously. With firends like that, who needs enemies (and given how rogue Iran has gone with its neighbours, de-escalation is hardly a point now).

 

I am no international law expert, but if, say, NZ (no offence intended to NZ'ers  - purely hypothetical) unleased a wave of terror organisations on Australia while building up nucelear capabilities and a stated aim of destroying Australia and Australians, would I care if the UN Security Council had been consulted before the Lodge sent in the forces to dispatch the perptrators? Not really. Unfortunately, sometimes the international order of the UN is too slow, has too many single nation vetos (I couldn't see Russia nor China agreeing despite the multiple 10s of thousands being killed - can you?), When your legal system is not fit for purpose, those bound by it start taking matters into their own hands, I guess. 

 

As I asked before, if it were Europe or Canada or someone else going in, would it be more pallatable? Had no response, but you don't have to go too far back in history to say, yes, it probably would be more pallatable. Milosovic, the mad dog he was, used brutal tactics to quell a movement of mostly Islamic immigrants starting their own country within the now former Federal Republoc of Yugoslavia. This was largely and internal sovereign issue, but his brutality led to Nato bombing Yugoslavia without a UN Security Council resolution - you know the same legal requirement that academics and some journos are calling the current attacks as unjustified and illegal.. But, it wasn't the US and Israel, I guess, so that was OK.