Is our 2 party system just a con?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Abbott was a Pommie loyalist. I don't think any true Traditional Aussie took any notice of him. If you're not Aussie, you won't get anywhere.

[facthunter]

He actually said people would watch PORN.. It would have permitted surgery to be Performed remotely and bring us to a First world system of  Fast Fibre-optic Connectivity.. What an outright CRETIN. Nev

[octave]

1 minute ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

If you're not Aussie, you won't get anywhere.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Care to expand on it?

[nomadpete]

Wille,  fair point about the constitution. 

 

I am looking from the perspective of how the system seems to work now. 

The average punters probably don't know half the names of candidates. That's why they vote above the line. Which is basically voting for their preferred party. 

 

The problem that I see is a fundamental one.

 

If one person is going to get the top job, they expect it to give the top power along with the top responsibility. Which practically invites the most ruthless dictator. Given absolute power they could quickly bring about many good things for their people. But then human nature kicks in, along with a dose of sociopathy.

 

In an attempt to moderate this kind of highly successful person, we put layers of politicions around the boss, to hamstring their more grandios selfserving plans. 

This is because in real life, dictators are never benevolent.

 

There is no perfect system. But we are not doing too badly.

[octave]

A strength of our system is the fact that the PM can be ditched by the party.  There are many examples in recent history where PMs have been ditched (Gorton, Hawke, Rudd, Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull). Whilst people may find this annoying, it is much better than the US system. Republicans know that Trump is a disaster and will cost them at the midterms, but there is nothing they can do about it.

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

No. What I meant was that a strong Opposition makes for a strong government. You can see that at the moment in the USA. The Democrats are not a strong opposition, so the Republicans are running riot.

I agree about the USA. (And lib/nat impotence)

But an opposition party must have some power to be assertive. Otherwise they are just background noise. Therefore even though unelected, and cannot pass legislation, they become an active part of government. Mix that with an opposition party's mandate to oppose, they actually generally hamper the elected party. 

Which brings the whole mob back to being like herding cats.

[nomadpete]

2 minutes ago, octave said:

Republicans know that Trump is a disaster and will cost them at the midterms, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Well, they can impeach.

[facthunter]

We are Not doing too badly, if you add it all up.. Albo only has the Power the Labor party will allow him to exert.The LEADER so called MUST adhere to Party Policy. Labor is acting pretty much as a team with little internal discord except with the larger Numbers not as many as would like get to Keep their Portfolios. Dreyfus and Husic Lost theirs. Ed Husic, a Muslim, was a worthy performer. I'm sorry to see him not there. Nev

[facthunter]

Not easy to impeach or bring Trump to obey the law. He's stacked most of the Courts and makes life hard for those who Dare to speak against him. He acts like a thuggish MAFIA Boss. and that's the way HE likes it.. The GOP are a weak Gutless Bunch of Sooks by and large with a few Galant exceptions like Mike Pence and Liz Cheney. America's reputation is Being Monstered and it's an INSIDE Job. It takes time and effort to restore Lost TRUST. Trump doesn't give a tuppeny about the Republican Party once they have served HIS Purpose. Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

1 hour ago, octave said:

I am not sure what you mean by this. Care to expand on it?

It should be obvious. Integrate into the Aussie culture and Aussie values ... and be at least 3rd generation. 

[octave]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

It should be obvious. Integrate into the Aussie culture and Aussie values ... and be at least 3rd generation. 

Are you saying that someone who is not third-generation is not truly Australian? I can't quite discern your meaning.

[nomadpete]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

We are Not doing too badly, if you add it all up..

Quite so.

But mainly so because our PM and party are playing nice in the sand pit. But just look at the Trump fiasco and you can see how a ruthless mob can tilt the playing field with disasterous consequences.

 

We rely on the politicians obeying the checks and balances built into the system. So far that's worked.

 

The yanks had checks and balances, but they stopped playing by the rules and it ceased being 'by the people, of the people or for the people'.

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

28 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

Quite so.

But mainly so because our PM and party are playing nice in the sand pit. But just look at the Trump fiasco and you can see how a ruthless mob can tilt the playing field with disasterous consequences.

 

We rely on the politicians obeying the checks and balances built into the system. So far that's worked.

 

The yanks had checks and balances, but they stopped playing by the rules and it ceased being 'by the people, of the people or for the people'.

 

 

 

And what makes it worse, is those on the far right with dreams of authoritarian rule in Australia and other countries are encouraged by what they see in the US.

[Siso]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

 For generations in  Europe People can NEVER own their Own home and cope with it fine. Because of John Howard's Push for Investment in Houses, which are Not productive, we now have Overcapitalised and Have some of the Biggest Houses in the entire world. IT did Not have to be that way. Steps are being taken that will gradually change that but if it Happened quickly it would not be the desired effect without consequences. Nev

Why compare us to Europe, People compare the price of petrol in Europe to Australia price when we say its to expensive here. You can catch a train from Amsterdam to Vilnius for 60 euro. Not much is the same. We should be able to afford houses. I have 2 kids looking and both can't afford and they get pretty upset about it. The ball has really been  dropped the ball on this one.

Edited 11 hours ago by Siso

[facthunter]

Owning a Home is not all it's cracked out to Be. You still keep paying for rates  repairs and  insurance etc people who move a bit will use all their saved money paying charges etc when they Move. Suitable rental is just as important. As I said OUR houses are too big and expensive as they are Labour Intensive and mostly on expensive sought after land in BIG cities. People Used to get a first House that was  minimum size and fairly  Plain or live is sheds or Bungalows. Nev

[Siso]

That is a matter of opinion, I own my own home and I wouldn't have it any other way. That is a self centered comment.

[randomx]

lt's just a real shame in this country there's no true visionary anywhere to vote for. A true leader with real vision real ideals, to fix what needs fixing and set us up in a brilliant direction , to truly look after their people and country and hold everything we have here dear.

There's no one, hasn't been since ld even know.

Hawk maybe could've been such a special leader on the surface , not sure how he went though.

Hanson at least has very very strong ideals, to at least point our country to somewhere but ofc she'd also be scary as hell at the helm too in most other ways, Aus wouldn't risk it and l'm not saying l think they should- just before anyone jumps all over that one. 

My only point is that there's never one truly special, made for the job once in a lifetime someone that's dreamt of the job their whole lives for the right reasons and visions bc of what they want for for our country and people. There's no one, never is, such a shame.

Most of the Majors are just politicians, people that just seem to end up falling into the job, like Angus has, Lee. All the other leaders on both often just end up getting voted in bc they have no one else at the time.

l think Albo had some sort of real vision but we see where that's landed but he's never been a truly talented leader though anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by randomx

[red750]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

OUR houses are too big and expensive

This house near me just got passed in for the fifth time...

 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, randomx said:

this country there's no true visionary anywhere to vote for.

Theer are visionaries who join Parties with teh hope of making a difference, but the first thing that they learn is that politics is a game of compromise.A person might have the idea to brighten a room by  turning on the light with a switch, but then has to compromise on wiring, switch design, lumen output and positioning. 

[facthunter]

It will sell if the Price is right.. It's about 3x the size of the first house I had Built with Just  a carport. The street was Gravel with no formed gutters. 1/4 acre block though. That was the standard then 1972. Nev

[facthunter]

I was Comfortable in it. 10'7 squares in the old formula. Lot's better than the Tiny bungalow I had prior. Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

2 hours ago, randomx said:

Hanson at least has very very strong ideals, to at least point our country to somewhere

 

I haven't voted for the last four Fed elections, just paid the fines, because the major parties are more internationalist than Australian these days, I can't stomach them. But if a One Nation candidate is contesting in my electorate, I'll consider voting again, give them the top spot and place the major parties last and second last. Other than that, I'll just keep paying the fine.

[octave]

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I haven't voted for the last four Fed elections, just paid the fines,

 You know, there is probably a smarter way to do this. If you want to send a message and avoid a fine, you could either go to the poll and get checked off and still not vote, or, if it is inconvenient, get a mail ballot and, instead of a valid vote, write a short message across your ballot. I know for a fact that each party's scrutineers do note such things.    Why are you so keen to punish yourself with a fine? 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I've explained it before. The nearest polling booth and PO mailing box are 37km from my place. I won't travel that distance without being compensated for fuel, wear and tear, and lunch money. 74km total on rough bush roads dodging roos, wombats, and potholes.

 

No thanks ... But for One Nation I might, because they have Traditional Aussies needs high on their list of considerations.  

[willedoo]

I've only got 12klm to drive to vote, but fairly safe from wombat and roo hazards. The biggest hazard is when you get to the polling centre and our dickhead local member tries to grab your hand to shake it.