Americanism over riding Aus, why don't people care.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Convicts deported to a land that was not the sooverign land of the country they were deported to, are in fact immigrants.

 

And, anyway, what is wrong with being an immigrant. Yeah, there have been some bad-uns, but many, if not most, have contributed positively econimically, socially, and dare I say, culturally. Look at the wheels of industry in Australia before it was choked by government policy - much of it by immigrants; Remeber what we called Greeks and Italians - Wogs - and their culture and cuisine were scoffed at. But now, we can't get enough of it. Asians? Turks? Much the same. 

 

There have always been issues with immigration.. And don't go saying, "yeah, but they integrated".. Not any more than the current waves.. How many of us don't remember the kid in class that had to interpret for their parents; or the concentration of new waves iof immigrants in particular areas resulting in culture, religion, shops, etc, sometimes not even showing signs in English, let alone speaking English?

 

And people are going to say oh, yeah, but the Somalians or Afghans or whoever, are different.. they are far more violent? I can tell you living in an area resplendant of landed Italians that there was enough violence there.. Gangs, Mafia, etc.. it was all rife.. The culture politics wasn't quite as strong and you just didn't hear about it. Asians and the import of their gangs, particularly the Triad? There was scant news, but it was there. Dare I say "White australia" has its fair share of criminals? Also the news was more moderate in its ideology pushing than it is today. Remember the Sky News debacle about whippig up a storm over Samalians as they are Muslim? Turns out, they are predominantly Christian. 

 

While each wave of immigrants suffered localised racism, they weren't pilloried like they are today in the press and use as cutlure politics pawns, mainly hyporcritically by the ideological right who abhoor.... culture politics.. when it is used against them. 

 

The realitty is for any wave if immigrants comng from a materially culturally different background, where their culture and identitiy is ingrained since birth and they are middle-thrities and beyond, it takes a generation to properly integrate into societty.. Always has. 

 

Even for me, as in immigrant to the UK from a materially similar culture, I identify more closely to being an Aussie than a Brit despite spending the vast majority of my adult life here. My best mates are Australian, I support Australia in the cricket (rugby and soccer I couldn't give a toss about). I go out of my way to buy Aussie wnes (well did - off the plonk at the moment). Jeez, I still have an Aussie accent I am told (in the UK, I believe they say I have an English twang in Aus, now). My favourtie sport? Aussie rules. My favourtue content providers - Australian.. 

 

But, my kids? Both as pommie as they come.. even with the whingeing! And I find that with immigrants of all walks - even those from more ancient cultures.. many of the kids consider themselves British.. Yeah, they may not have converted to Chritianity, but in many other ways, they are British..

 

And the "Aussie" Culture, is essentionally a pigeon version of English culture, anyway.

[onetrack]

There's always been a disparity and dislike between rural/outback Australians, and city Australians. Even A.B. Paterson and Henry Lawson wrote about the disparities between the Australian "bush" and "city" cultures, in the late 1800's.

 

Rural/outback dwellers constantly harp on about "city slickers", and how they wouldn't know the first thing about where their food and minerals come from. The gulf has only widened with so many recent inventions that make life easy, and which further detach city people from life "on the farm" or "in the mines".

Add in immigration, where new cultures have no understanding, no historical links, and no education about what earlier Australians did to make life easy for them (including wartime sacrifices), and the gulf becomes bigger.

However, I am heartened at Anzac Day marches to see many Asians, and other cultures that fought alongside us in many wars, also showing respect and admiration for our sacrifices.

[octave]

We moved to a country town in 1990 and lived there until 2011.    It was an interesting place to live with a healthy mix of traditional farmers, etc., and people like us  (tree change folks). When we moved there, we were worried that it it be a redneck town; however, this was not the case. There were a few redneckish types on one end of the scale and a few dropout hippies on the other side.  The town was quite cohesive, not that everyone shared the politics or life philosophies, but there was quite a mutual respect for "differences" The town remained vibrant, and it still is.   Rather than being in decline like so many country towns, this place thrived, attracting artists, musicians, craftspeople, etc.

 

An interesting point regarding immigration, there was a large Chinese family called the Nomchong family.  They owned several businesses around town.  This family came to the town (Braidwood) in 1860.  Throughout the years, they had all married other Chinese people, so they looked very Chinese, but all had the broadest Australian accents.  The owner of the local electrical appliance shop was Bob Nomchong, and within the family, there was a Betty and an Eileen. Amongst the younger generations, there was a Kylie, etc.

 

The strange thing is if I were standing next to one of the Nomchong family, I would be judged as the Aussie, and they would be assumed to be the immigrant rather than the 5th Australians

 

https://www.cmag.com.au/exhibitions/nomchong-family

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

2 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Convicts deported to a land that was not the sooverign land of the country they were deported to, are in fact immigrants.

Does that even make sense?

 

Emigrating to where ever requires a conscious decision on the part of the potential immigrant, and for permission to be given by the receiving nation. To say convicts were immigrants, surmises that the Aboriginals gave them permission to settle here. Nothing could be further from the truth. The convicts were made to settle here by the Poms, with redcoats to ensure a semblance of law and order.  

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'm still not an immigrant.

But you are the descendant of an immigrant, same as most of us.

[nomadpete]

Identity?

 

WTF?

 

National identity?

 

WTF?

 

Sort out your personal identity first. I will trust you relative to how you present yourself to me.

 

We are all passengers on Planet Earth. Fussing about continental, political, or other levels of idrntity is trivial in the bigger scheme of things.

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Does that even make sense?

 

Emigrating to where ever requires a conscious decision on the part of the potential immigrant, and for permission to be given by the receiving nation. To say convicts were immigrants, surmises that the Aboriginals gave them permission to settle here. Nothing could be further from the truth. The convicts were made to settle here by the Poms, with redcoats to ensure a semblance of law and order.  

Yes it does make sense... You ancestors decided at some stage to stay on their own free will, did they not? Even if they were went to the colony for the term of theiur natural life, when released from custody, at some stage they were relased from custody and stayed - on their own volition.. .does that not make them immuigrants at that point? 

 

Or, say thaey had kids while in custody - those kids would be, at the time British citizens.. and when they stayed, does that not make them immigrants? Or are you telling me your whole line of family are still incarcerated?

 

 

 

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