Environmental Destruction

[old man emu]

8 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

The big batteries smooth the peak, they can’t store enough to feed the grid. 

I beleive teh interim measure is to smooth the peak. They haven't got to the stage of storing enought to feed the grid right now. (?)

[nomadpete]

8 hours ago, onetrack said:

but no-one ever raged on about the "visual pollution" of windmills, which have existed since the 9th century. No-one complained because the windmills were highly beneficial,

Further, nobody complains about the visual pollution of sprawling outer suburbs, or of massive open cut coal mines (or other mines), or massive power stations (no matter what they burn).

 

Frankly, whether a windfarm is producing or not, I think the turbines are visually nice.

When I drive past a fossil fuelled power station, it just looks like a enormous ugly shed, whether it is on line or dismantled for routine maintenance. 

 

Further, I resent the implication that when a wind farm is idle, it is proof of it's uselessness. Every day the grid shuts down plant and reactivates plant to balance supply to demand. The fact that wind turbies (or steam turbines) are sometimes not turning, is not any indication of their economic viability.

[nomadpete]

3 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I beleive teh interim measure is to smooth the peak. They haven't got to the stage of storing enought to feed the grid right now. (?)

Unfoat this time, chemical storage (batteries) is not capable of major 'carry over' supply to the grid all night.

It does however, provide enough storage for other mechanical generation to take up slack during brief shortfalls.

 

That is why we really need some major storage such as pumped storage.

 

For me, a smallish home battery will tide me over each night until the sun hits my rooftop solar each morning.

 

I suspect that those who can affort it will be steadily installing a battery to complement their existing rooftop solar.

 

We are giving up on trusting our government to provide reliable electricity.

[spacesailor]

My daughter had to have a " smart meter " , & the cost went through the roof for " equipment " .

My house is 50 years old !.  yet I still pay for that meter .

Perhaps it wasn't enough to pay it off .

spacesailor 

[red750]

The thing I like about a smart meter is that the power co website can show on a daily basis how much you've used, what you bill to date is, and estimates what your next bill will be. You can make progress payments so that the actual bill is zero. No bill shock. I wish the gas co could do the same thing.

[Siso]

There is no such thing as free power!

[octave]

11 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

The big batteries smooth the peak, they can’t store enough to feed the grid. 

They do feed power back to the grid.  Whilst each grid-scale battery cannot supply the grid for days, they can help with peak periods, reducing the need for peaker plants. They also reduce curtailment of renewable sources that would otherwise be lost. Another service they provide is arbitrage, whereby they store power when it is cheap and sell it into the grid during periods of high demand/price.

 

I am not saying that we just need to build more batteries and job done.  Grid batteries are part of the solution.   Home batteries are also a contributor, as they become more and more common.  

 

[old man emu]

Let's face it. The uptake of solar power generation has raced ahead of the upgrade of the transmission system. As we become more and more a 24/7, electricity-based society, we have to find a way to provide electricity overnight.

[Siso]

I think SA is it 77% but it hangs of interconnectors from Victoria that can handle its whole demands a lot of the time. Bit like Germany hanging off France and Sweden. SA probably has the smallest demand in the country(maybe Tassie) 1/4 of the size of Vic, NSW and Qld. I think Australia is about 40%. We are just seeing market notices for NSW from AEMO directing plant to start for grid stability (https://wattclarity.com.au/articles/2025/10/20oct-nsw-systemstrength/) SA has had that for a few years. Guess who pays for that. The generator doesn't do this for free. Another hidden cost for the cheapest form of electricity.

 

Massive coal mines are normally in one place for several GW's of generation not visible in every direction as far as the eye can see. I agree, the odd windfarm here and there looks ok but it is getting out of control. Went to the Ignalina nuclear plant for a look when I was overseas. You didn't even know it was there except for the large pipes on the side of the road (probably used for district heating until you were at the front gate.(no cooling tower) This plant was designed for 4.5 GW's of electricity. (only 3 was finished) It was nestled in the trees. 3 GW is about 600 5 MW wind turbines(136m tower, 150m + rotor) x 2.5 for the capacity factor. (1400) plus whatever you need for the wind droughts etc.

Edited 22 hours ago by Siso

[spacesailor]

My ' dumb ' meter ' tells me the cost ! 

I just ' note ' the " analogue " reading then deduct that from the final reading , multiply by forty  cents

That will be ( with the stat cost )  my  bill .

If I get it all correct.  LoL

spacesailor

[octave]

21 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

My ' dumb ' meter ' tells me the cost ! 

My Smart Meter tells me my yearly, monthly, daily or even hourly data in kWh or dollars and cents, as well as solar exports. My solar app shows me down to the 15 minutes. I could go and read the numbers off the meter, but this gives me less information and is a bit of an effort.

[red750]

I hate copping a bill for $300 or more. Usually lands when other big bills arrive. I pay $40 or $50 fortnightly out of each pension. I can keep tabs on how much credit I have built up, and how much I'm likely to pay. I can increase or decrease my fortnightly payments as required. Then when the bill arrives, it is usually $0 or a very small amount. Helps budgeting.

[octave]

23 minutes ago, red750 said:

I hate copping a bill for $300 or more.

You probably won't want to hear how much my bills are (at this time of the year, my bill is negative).   Should you consider solar?  

[red750]

Our house is virtually falling apart. The kids want to pull it down and rebuild. I told them they'll have to wait till I'm gone. It would probably require rewiring. I don't have the money to fix it up and it would only be putting a bandaid on a shipwreck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[octave]

19 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

The big batteries smooth the peak, they can’t store enough to feed the grid. 

Big batteries are becoming an increasingly important part of Australia’s power mix, and on Saturday morning smashed all previous records by providing more than one third of South Australia’s power demand in some trading intervals in the early morning peak.

[facthunter]

What else can respond so quickly?  Nev