Who should pay for kangaroo damage?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I've collided with four kangaroos so far, damaging my two vehicles. Can I sue the Local Council? If you were to say it's the responsibility of the motorist to avoid kangaroos, then how can it be done? 

 

I did an experiment, which entailed driving at different slow speeds to see what the kangaroos would do. Anything over 70k/h on a back road is high risk and very likely to hit a roo that jumps out onto the road.

 

At just below 70k/h, the risk is much lower, but the risk is still there. So I kept going with the experiment and found that 60-65k/h was the fastest speed allowable to avoid hitting kangaroos altogether. 

 

I observed what the roos do a various speeds. If you're going fast in a 100k/h zone, roos jump out onto the road right in front of you and you'll hit them.

 

If you're doing around 75k/h, you have a better chance of avoiding a roo, but one could still surprise you if it's unseen and jumps out of tall grass.

 

At 60-65k/h, the roos will nearly always hesitate and stand still, or jump back into the bush from the side of the road. As funny as it sounds, roos need time to think. This slower speed gives them that time. I have not hit anymore Kangaroos since I've adapted my driving to that slower speed on back roads. Traffic whizzes past me, and they cause all the road kill, not me anymore.  

 

Wombats are also at risk, they run out in front of vehicles. Again, the slower speed is necessary.

 

A photo I took of someone else's road kill near my village ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Part of the Australian way of life. Animals and falling trees.  Nev

[octave]

57 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I've collided with four kangaroos so far, damaging my two vehicles. Can I sue the Local Council? If you were to say it's the responsibility of the motorist to avoid kangaroos, then how can it be done? 

We lived near a country town, 100km east af Canberra, for 21 years, and we worked in Canberra.  This meant driving into Canberra 5 times a week.  The trip there was fine; however, the trip back was usually at a bad time for roos.   During this time, we hit 1 roo bad enough to damage the car and 1 wombat (at low speed).   On our way home, we would vary are speed according to the surroundings.  Travelling the same road so often, you start to get a sense of where roos are likely to hop across the road.  Likewise, the weather plays a part.  Our tactic was to slow down (even to 60kph) in those places that tended to have a high body count.  There were occasions where we had to take evasive action; however, this does require sound judgement, better to hit a roo than a tree or a car coming the other way. This particular highway was treacherous enough even without roos. This highway was noted for serious accidents and head-on collisions (Kings Highway)

 

Why should the council (rate payers) be liable?    I would hate to think how much the rates would need to increase to cover the numerous incidents.

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

At 60-65k/h, the roos will nearly always hesitate and stand still, or jump back into the bush from the side of the road. As funny as it sounds, roos need time to think. This slower speed gives them that time. I have not hit anymore Kangaroos since I've adapted my driving to that slower speed on back roads. Traffic whizzes past me, and they cause all the road kill, not me anymore.  

For once, GON I  agree (with this statement at least)   It is really up to the driver to drive to the conditions. Another hazard we experienced was heavy fog but we were often amazed at how some cars would come up close behind and then overtake and accelerate off into the unknown.

 

I use a navigation app on my phone where you and other road users can report road hazards (with voice), then when other drivers approach the hazard, you get a voice warning. The most common warning (around here) is "vehicle on the shoulder of the road". You get about 500metres' notice, and as you pass, it asks if the hazard is still there.    It does report animal hazards, including "dead animal on the road".   It does depend on how many users of this app are in the area; it does tell you that, and it is often quite a large number.

 

Other creatures I have had to avoid are cattle, horses,  deer, and would you believe a totally naked man running down the middle of the road at St Kilda

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The roos need to be culled, there's just too many of them around where I live. It's not uncommon to see a dozen dead roos on the way to town. There's Council signs beside the roads, but that's it, they do nothing else to stop the carnage.

[facthunter]

They are really dangerous. If they come through the window, you could DIE.  Nev

[octave]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

The roos need to be culled, there's just too many of them around where I live. It's not uncommon to see a dozen dead roos on the way to town. There's Council signs beside the roads, but that's it, they do nothing else to stop the carnage.

Whilst science-based culling is fine, I think it won't totally eliminate the hazard. A lower population will improve the odds, but you only have to hit one to have a bad day.  I saw a dead kangaroo on the Tullamarine freeway about 4 km from Melbourne airport.  So yes, culling might help but you still have to drive as if one is going to hop across the road. 

 

I think driver education is also important. Many motorists think the 100k km/h speed sign is a minimum rather than a maximum IF conditions are favourable.  As I said 21 years driving quite long distances through bush and farmland and 2 incidents which were not too serious because I was not driving fast.  This can't simply be due to luck.

 

 

[facthunter]

With Roos I've actually come to a standstill and they wouldn't move. They love the greener grass along the edge of the tar road just on  sunset. Nev

[pmccarthy]

I have not hit one for twenty years although I drive on roo infested roads every day. My tactics are to always drive in the centre of the road, to limit speed to 80 at roo times morning and evening, and to know where the roo crossings are in our area. Of course, I have been lucky too.

[Siso]

driving back from Bathurst to SA one night it started to rain., all the roos came on to the road to drink the water. Pulled over and rolled the swags out.

[spacesailor]

I hit 5 roo's in one go .

Bourke to Dubbo  is 110 kph .

I was tired , so driving under 8o kph . Roo's on both sides of the highway,  then all of a sudden they jumped in front of the 4X4 .

I didn't get the chance to swerve,  the ' bullbar ' threw two to the side , two went under the car & one under the wheels .

That ' one ' under the wheel almost turned the " Jackaroo " onto it's side . 

We were lucky , all repairable. 

Insurance assessor said that area was noted for roo carnage,  and they jump into the yellow headlight patch , in front of the car  ! ,

They think it's a bit of sunshine .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I don't know about THAT. Later at night they are just getting across the ROAD as fast as possible in my experience They are NOT THAT CLEVER and don't gallop around at night. Where there's NO fences anything's Possible. Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The last one I encountered, just the other week, was panicked by a speeding car coming the other way. I was doing my usual 60k/h but the other car spooked the roo, a big male, and it crossed between us. Luckily, neither of us hit it but it was close. I estimated that I would have hit it had I been going faster, say 80 instead of 60, in the 100k/h stretch. This was on the narrow hilly winding road I have to go on to get to town, before I join the main Highway.

 

The lesson for me is to slow down even more if the odd car coming in from opposite direction looks like it's speeding.

[octave]

Getting back to the original question, who should pay?   I think the obvious answer is the motorist's insurance company or the motorist themselves if they choose to be uninsured.   On the route I used to drive, the road was bordered by private properties.  Any culling would surely not be the responsibility of the council but the landholders. I would suggest that most owners of farmland already cull, certainly our neighbours did regularly cull roos. 

 

I just read some interesting statistics.  

 

"Approximately 5% of fatal road accidents in Australia involve an animal, and a significant portion of these fatal accidents, around 42%, are caused by drivers swerving to avoid hitting the animal. While the overall percentage of accidents is low, swerving is a major cause of serious injury and death in those incidents". 

 

I don't think it is a problem that can be totally eliminated. Perhaps it could be part of driver education.  It is just a part of living in Australia; elsewhere, it is moose or elk

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

The thing is, if Councils don't do enough to minimize roos on the roads, the Councils should pay. It's their property and the onus is on them to make the roads safe to use. Pot holes and roos are proliferating with a lack of action by Councils. They could slash the vegetation both sides of back roads. That would make an enormous difference, the roos that jump out, are nearly always hidden in that vegetation.

[facthunter]

They could do a lot of things but your RATES would skyrocket. What Craps ME is the RISK to drivers and Occupants. A lot of people don't LIKE Culling but they breed like rabbits in the right conditions and DIE a horrible death when they become  DRY. .  Nev

[octave]

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

if Councils don't do enough to minimize roos on the roads, the Councils should pay.

Which means the rate payers. Most councils operate barely in the black and often in the red. Where would they get the money from?  The answer is increasing rates.

[octave]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

What Craps ME is the RISK to drivers and Occupants. A lot of people don't LIKE Culling

Yeah I get that; however, where I lived every night of the week, you could hear shooting and see spotlights. The high rate of collisions with kangaroos was in spite of heavy culling.  Farmers cull to protect their livelihood.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Our rates have already gone up, but we're seeing nothing for the extra money. Slashing can't cost that much, I've seen it done before with only 3 personnel and a heavy vehicle with the slashing equipment, if I remember correctly. 

[octave]

I just want to point out that I am not anti-culling done responsibly.   I think making the council responsible is problematic.     Should the council go onto private property to cull, or should they force the landowner to cull?  One of the reasons the roo population has increased so much is farming, causing a plentiful food and water supply that did not exist in the past. I am definitely not having a go at farmers; I do believe they, out of self-interest, do cull heavily .

 

Just doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations over the 21 years I lived in the bush but worked in the city (100km each way), I did (only including work travel 40 weeks a year (octave likes his holidays)  in 21 years, that comes to 40000 per year times 21 years, which equals 840000 km.  Half of these kms were mid-morning, so very little risk. That leaves 420000km. I used to finish work at 8 PM so this was all either in the dark or at dusk.   As I said previously, I hit one roo which caused minor damage (just had to replace the plastic on the front of the car, and 1 wombat no damage to the car, but the wombat was totalled. I don't really believe in luck, however, I guess there is some randomness. However, it seems to me that driving style had to be the major factor.   Again, I am not saying that culling has no place, but I think it is only part of the solution.  I think driver education is probably the biggest factor. 

 

My trip to work would take an hour; however, the return trip could take an hour and a half. We just had to accept that. So sure, cull scientifically and clear the roadside in appropriate areas, but education is key.

 

The town we lived outside of was Braidwood, which is on the highway between Canberra and Batemans Bay. In the summer months, on weekends and holidays, folks from Canberra would be making the trip through our town.  Unfortunately, too many of them believed that the trip should take under 2 hours, regardless of circumstances, so many collisions with animals and also many head-ons.

 

I think in some other Nordic countries, there is education about avoiding collisions with moose. I am not sure what the current situation but when I learned to drive, there was no mention of how to avoid collisions with animals and what to do if a collision is inevitable.  Given that I think is was 48% of fatalities involving animals come from swerving it is clear that driver education is probably the change that would result in the biggest reduction to deaths, injuries and damage.

[octave]

29 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Slashing can't cost that much, I've seen it done before with only 3 personnel and a heavy vehicle with the slashing equipment,

I am not sure how large your council is or how many kilometres of road there would be or how often they would need to redo it, but 3 workers doesn't really seem enough (as far as I can see). The council is only responsible for some roads.  The Kings Highway that I used to travel on is the responsibility of the NSW state government.

[Siso]

I agree, the accessibility of troughs at windmills would increase there grazing areas greatly

[spacesailor]

Another problem about " culling " roo's ect .

Is the City shooter  that went on the weekend ' safari bbq ' of yesterday. 

Are unarmed now. 

No guns for the average bloke ,

Trained or not , our population is useless if invaded ! .

My " roo meat " is at the hands of strangers.  I've no idea of their hygiene,  when culling for ' human consumption ' .

spacesailor

 

[onetrack]

I've driven about 3,000,000 kays over exactly 60 years, and I started driving in the bush at 16 (unlicenced), and spent vast amounts of my driving time in rural and goldfields areas. I've hit dozens of 'roos over the decades, and virtually all my vehicles were equipped with 'roobars. They were lightweight steel 'roobars, and they all worked without fail. There was a bloke called Geoff Neve (F G Neve & Co) in Kalgoorlie who made the best tubular 'roobars. He's long gone now, as a 'roobar fabricator.

 

The worst section of road for 'roos I've ever encountered was Kalgoorlie to Leonora to Laverton (W.A.) in the late 1980's. The 'roos were in multiple hundreds, and you couldn't go 5 kms without hitting one, or having a near-miss with one.

Many people avoided driving that section of road at night. You would easily see 200-300 'roos in an hour on the roadsides. The roadsides were clear, and the vegetation was slashed back about 20 metres each side of the highway - but the 'roos would come out after a shower of rain, to drink from the little puddles on the road, or to munch on the fresh green shoots by the road edges.

 

I've always practiced slowing down where 'roos are prevalent, and stopping quickly in a straight line, if a 'roo impact looks like it's going to occur. I also find leaning on the horn works, the 'roos can be dazzled by your headlights, but they will move at the sound of a horn. The problem is trying to figure out where they will go. Many a time, I've had a 'roo double back, when I think it's gone.

I've found, if a 'roo is heading across your path, steer to where it currently is (provided the road is clear, and provided no major swerve is involved), and by the time you reach that point, the 'roo is gone from that spot, regardless of which way it has jumped.