Crackdown on "Sovereign Citizens" in W.A.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

22 hours ago, onetrack said:

How did you come to that figure?

 

The only place you get a gold watch and a Fijian holiday after a lifetime of work, is when you work for a large global corporation for 40 years.

I want something for my $30,000. Why should they get all that money, and I get nothing? It's a scam of the highest order, because it's not voluntary, it's compulsory, and if I never make a claim, I haven't actually used their service and I deserve to get my money back, or at least 80% of it, I'm not a charity for bad drivers who injure people.

 

With compulsory third party insurance, bad drivers are rewarded, and safe drivers are penalized. Seems arse about, and one day it'll have to be fixed. Safe drivers who never make a claim, are the ones who should be rewarded. You can't argue against that, pretty foolish if you do.

[octave]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I want something for my $30,000. Why should they get all that money

GON, you don't seem to understand how insurance works.   Money flows into an insurance fund, but it also flows out. Every year, people suffer catastrophic injuries on the road.   We share the financial risk. If you got your money back because you never claimed, how would the insurance company pay out those who do have an accident?

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

and I get nothing?

 

You do get something you get:

 

Some financial indemnity should you have an accident that severely injures another road user.   Insurance pays out for your mistake rather than you being sued into financial oblivion.

 

A financial payout to cover medical expenses, etc, should you become a quadriplegic due to an accident that may be your fault or perhaps someone else's fault. 

 

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'm not a charity for bad drivers who injure people.

Payouts also go to those good drivers who are injured by bad drivers.

 

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

With compulsory third party insurance, bad drivers are rewarded, and safe drivers are penalized.

I presume you consider yourself to be a good driver.   The money you have paid over the years into CTP helps to ensure that if you have an accident (whether your fault or someone else's) and you have life-changing injuries, there is money to support YOU. 

 

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Safe drivers who never make a claim, are the ones who should be rewarded.

GON, this statement is so wrong.  SAFE DRIVERS ARE ALSO INJURED ON THE ROAD. YOU COULD BE THE RECIPIENT ONE DAY.

 

We could have no compulsory 3rd party injury insurance, but what would you do if you were rendered disabled by an uninsured driver and you required lifetime care?   Unless we are prepared to let a severely disabled person crawl around their house trying to feed themselves, then someone has to pay something.  

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:54 PM by octave

[red750]

Compare it to home insurance. You pay out hundreds per year to insure your home. Why? To cover the cost should your home burn down, or get crushed by a falling tree. If that doesn't happen, you don't get a refund. You pay hundreds for home contents insurance. If burglars don't break into your house and steal your valuables, you don't get a refund.

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

3rd Party is compulsory for a GOOD reason. To ensure people injured get compensation. Back to topic?  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

4 hours ago, octave said:

If you got your money back because you never claimed, how would the insurance company pay out those who do have an accident?

In other words, I'm obligated to be nothing less than a one man charity. Where does it say in the fine print that I must be charitable to accident prone drivers?

It's all in the cliché, "you don't know how insurance works".

I know how it works alright, take every cent of my $30,000 even if I never make a claim. If you never use the service, it's time for a substantial refund. I also know that money earns interest, but who gets any of that interest? The insurance companies keep it all. It's a scam.

 

It's a bit like my two years conscription, I gave that compulsory two years, and got SFA at the end of it, not even a thank you.

 

I hope y'all can see the criminal pattern in the major parties psyches, who brought in this compulsory insurance - let the insurance companies take, and give nothing back if you never make a claim.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

Compare it to home insurance. You pay out hundreds per year to insure your home. Why? To cover the cost should your home burn down, or get crushed by a falling tree. If that doesn't happen, you don't get a refund. You pay hundreds for home contents insurance. If burglars don't break into your house and steal your valuables, you don't get a refund.

 

 

 

 

 

That type of insurance is not compulsory, it's voluntary.

[Marty_d]

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

In other words, I'm obligated to be nothing less than a one man charity. Where does it say in the fine print that I must be charitable to accident prone drivers?

It's all in the cliché, "you don't know how insurance works".

I know how it works alright, take every cent of my $30,000 even if I never make a claim. If you never use the service, it's time for a substantial refund. I also know that money earns interest, but who gets any of that interest? The insurance companies keep it all. It's a scam.

 

It's a bit like my two years conscription, I gave that compulsory two years, and got SFA at the end of it, not even a thank you.

 

I hope y'all can see the criminal pattern in the major parties psyches, who brought in this compulsory insurance - let the insurance companies take, and give nothing back if you never make a claim.

You're the one missing the point.

Do you want a refund on your taxes if you didn't go to school, use public health or drive on roads?

Do you think you should be refunded the amount of your taxes that went towards defence spending if Australia doesn't have a war?

It's called being a citizen. The state provides certain services to everyone, and they have to be paid for by... everyone. In fact third party insurance is even fairer than most taxes because you only pay it if you have a vehicle registered for road use.

Yet again you somehow conflate this with your national service, yes, we know, you've brought it up in almost every post. Time to get over it, and all the other chips weighing down your shoulder.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I pointed out that the major parties have a major flaw in their psyches. They fail to understand that when money is spent for a service, if the service is never used, then the money should be refunded, or in the case of CTP insurance, at least 80% of it, because there are administration costs for the insurance companies. But technically, the motorist is not using the service for what it was intended for, receiving a payout.

 

Politicians need to re-think CTP insurance and come up with a fairer outcome for motorists who never make a claim.

 

There is already a law for when buying goods and services online. "If you don't receive the product, you're entitled to a refund." It's law, and it needs to be extended to CTP insurance.

[octave]

38 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I know how it works alright, take every cent of my $30,000 even if I never make a claim. If you never use the service

 

GON, you do use the service.  As well as paying for those injured, your premium indemnifies you from being sued for injuring other road users and yourself.    Your premium means you can drive around in reasonable confidence that you won't be sued for millions of dollars.

 

A question GON if you were in charge, what would you do?   Would you say "screw you" to the kid hit by a car or the driver who is hit by a drunk driver or just the driver who makes a mistake?   You say CTP is mandatory; however, you are not compelled to drive a car. There are many areas in which the common good sometimes dictates legal compulsion.  Many of us here fly or have flown in the past. Being grown-ups we understand that along with the freedom to fly comes responsibilities.  Our aircaft must be maintained tp the prescribed standards.  The safety of other air users and people on the ground is crucial.   As grown-ups we understand that rights come with responsibilities.     

 

GON can you answer this question?   If you got your wish an CTP was not mandatory, and you ran off the road and hit a pedestrian, would you pay for the (posibly lifetime) care of your victim?  The average payout to a severely disabled victim?   Also if a drunk driver ran into you and rendered you quadraplegic, would you be able to support yourself? 

 

49 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

That type of insurance is not compulsory, it's voluntary.

There are all sorts of insurances that are not voluntary.    A doctor needs to have indemnity insurance.   Even as a private music teacher, I was required to have indemnity insurance.   It is just part of being a grown-up and participating in society

[red750]

39 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

That type of insurance is not compulsory, it's voluntary.

 

OK. Let's look at it another way. You are an exemplary driver, going about your business, and a ratbag driver goes flying through a red light, cleans up your car, leaving you with head, chest and leg injuries. You are going to be in hospital for weeks and recuporating for longer. Who pays for that? The other guy's third party insurance. Luckily, it's compulsory, or he might not have had it. Then you would be up that well known creek. Obviously, if it was a crim in a stolen vehicle, you might not be so lucky. The CTP is the price you pay for being lucky enough not to make an account draining payout.

[octave]

4 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

But technically, the motorist is not using the service for what it was intended for, receiving a payout.

 

BS 

 

This is just in Victoria

 

So in Victoria 2020-2023 there were 5617 serious injuries from crashes with 1079 of those being life-threatening plus around 300 deaths.   This is where a lot of the CTP that I pay goes.   If get hit by a drunk driver or perhaps an eldrly driver who makes a mistake I will be somewhat compensated.  You seem not to care about these people.

 

I dont know how to say this i a different way. If you never make a claim you are still getting a service. The service is  indemnity from being sued for millions because you make a mistake. 

 

 

 

"CTP insurance covers vehicle owners and drivers if they hurt or fatally injure someone in a car accident. According to the TAC, the insurance will cover the owner and driver for any liability including large court payouts. The TAC says it pays an average of $170,000 for each road death and an average of $2.25 million for each serious injury (such as traumatic brain and spinal injuries)."

 

[red750]

From the Motor Accident Insurance Commission  website:

 

Is CTP insurance good value?

Yes. Unlike many other types of insurance, CTP provides unlimited indemnity to the insured. Benefits paid to the injured party depend on the extent of the injuries and can include the cost of ambulance, hospital and medical treatment, rehabilitation, loss of income and long-term care. Limits may apply with respect to loss of income (the upper limit being three times average weekly earnings per week) and limits may apply in certain circumstances regarding the payment of legal costs.

[rgmwa]

GON, you run the risk of being involved in a car accident every time you drive, either by causing it yourself or as the result of someone or something else causing it. Accidents happen whether you are a good driver or not. The insurance exists for good reason as has been pointed out. It’s not a scam designed to disadvantage you and you’re not owed anything. If you don’t like the system then sell the car. It’s pretty simple.

[facthunter]

Peace of MIND MUST be worth something??? No? Nev

[spacesailor]

Compulsory Third Party Insurance. 

Is not  Compulsory. 

It is tied to your registration ,  I know of at least three driver's,  without registration and third-party Insurance. 

(  one is quite legal.  Farm hacks are not required to be registered or  third party insured ) .

 

Your vote , that's not what you get fined for not doing.

Just go to the polling place have your name ticked-off , then you will not get that fine .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 10/10/2025 at 3:01 AM, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'm half sovereign citizen. I don't vote anymore because I received nothing for the two years conscription I endured under duress. Onetrack also went through it, guns were shoved in our hands with the idea of killing people, if we were ordered to do so.

 

Instead of voting, I pay the fine and treat it as just another bill that must be paid like any other bill.

 

Another reason I don't vote is because compulsory third party motoring insurance has no provision for a substantial partial refund if you never make a claim over your entire motoring life. The tens of thousands of dollars I've paid in premiums will be lost if I never make a claim. That money will go to CEOs to contribute to their next Rolls Royce or Learjet.

 

You'd think they'd give me a gold watch or something for being a safe driver all my life, but guess what I'll get? a kick in the arse, like I got when I was discharged from conscription.

 

I can well understand where sovereign citizens are coming from, but I wouldn't go that far, I prefer to remain in the system to enable change, working on getting rid of inhuman politicians who think conscripts deserve nothing and wishing for us to all die off. We badly need a Bill-of-Rights, so we don't get kicked around and ripped off, under the guise of inadvertent tyrannical government policies and "mob" majority rule. 

 

On 10/10/2025 at 12:10 PM, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'll be losing about $30,000 by the time I hand in my license. I want a gold watch and a Fijian holiday.

 

 

23 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I want something for my $30,000. Why should they get all that money, and I get nothing? It's a scam of the highest order, because it's not voluntary, it's compulsory, and if I never make a claim, I haven't actually used their service and I deserve to get my money back, or at least 80% of it, I'm not a charity for bad drivers who injure people.

 

With compulsory third party insurance, bad drivers are rewarded, and safe drivers are penalized. Seems arse about, and one day it'll have to be fixed. Safe drivers who never make a claim, are the ones who should be rewarded. You can't argue against that, pretty foolish if you do.

 

This may seem like a GON attack post, but be thankful it only quoted 3 of the 5 multi quotes. I will keep it short:

• @onetrack and my uncle were conscripted as well. Did it change their lives? Undoubtedly. But they don't seemto be letting it define them not are the soveriegn citizens, so connecting conscription to jusitifying being a soverign citizen is a bit of a furphy
• CTP, as with any insurance policy is a transfer for of liability for a risk materialising. During your how-many years of driving, you have received that service. You don't even get to claim in this case - it would be a person you have injured or the estate a person you have killed (i.e. at fault). Cor CTP, you don't get to claim - you are paying for the service of protecting your assets in the event someone has a claim against you. You recevied that service, so why should you be due anything.
• Yeah, I get you may think you have had no reason for someone to lodge a claim against you (you don't get to claim TPI, compulsory or not). But higher risk activities (of which driving is) has lower differences in premium between safe and unsafe drivers, as the activity is more the risk than [most of] the drivers. Some random event can cause an accident, and they don't have to be freak events. As society has deemed, due to the nature of driving and drivers in general, it is ubiquitous, represents a real risk to drivers, has to cover situations where the driver at fault may not be insured, wants to ensure any innocent victims/estate of victoms of a crash that are injured or die will recevie requisite compensation and care, it is right that it is compulsory. By doing iut at the vehicle rather than the person, you are making sure that as much as possible, the at-fault drriver is covered. As you can't predict who the driver will be, there is no difference in premium.

In short, you have received the service you have paid for; the risk profile of you has little bearing of the premium in the context, and you're whinging about the cost of doing someething. Just don't do it, then.

[facthunter]

IF everyone who didn't claim got their Premiums refunded HOW long would the fund be solvent?  Anyhow WE are OFF Topic and have been for a while. Nev

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, facthunter said:

Anyhow WE are OFF Topic and have been for a while

Because someone is off  rocker.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

You're definitely off your rocker if you pay $30,000 and eventually get nothing for it. The money is extorted out of you like a mob gangster asking a shop owner for protection money. And penalties apply in both cases. But I suppose a car owner can always stop driving cars ... and the shop owner could have packed up and opened somewhere else far away where there were no gangsters.

[Jerry_Atrick]

17 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

You're definitely off your rocker if you pay $30,000 and eventually get nothing for it.

You are buying protection.. or risk mitigation. You are off your rocker if, you would not take up $360 (in QLD) to mitigate virtually unlimited financial losses should an event occur, which is easonably probable. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Jerry_Atrick

[rgmwa]

29 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

You're definitely off your rocker if you pay $30,000 and eventually get nothing for it. 

The only solution I can see here is for you to go out tomorrow and get run over so you can recoup some of your investment. That should make you feel better. 

[octave]

A few years ago I bought a smoke detector for my house.  Smoke detectors are mandatory. The alarm has never saved me from a fire. I think I should be able to get a refund.