What has Trump done now?

[red750]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/nobel-peace-prize-hopeful-donald-trump-sends-cia-into-venezuela-as-he-starts-looking-at-land/vi-AA1OzJwO?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=68f0cdf4fc7d4dcaa4efe469da676c81&ei=121

[rgmwa]

Aren’t covert operations in other counties supposed to be kept secret? 

[nomadpete]

8 hours ago, rgmwa said:

Aren’t covert operations in other counties supposed to be kept secret? 

I think the only thing covert about trump administration is cashflow

 

Am I  biased?

[ClintonB]

Big mouth clown can’t keep anything to himself. Not even the equivalent of a piece of poo on the sole of a true statesman’s shoe.

 

[onetrack]

The best description of Trump I've seen recently, is "bullshit-artist-in-Chief", from the Russian, Vladimir Frolov, a former Russian diplomat. Trump has no ability to forge proper plans, and to see them carried out - he makes arbitrary decisions on the fly, and then fails to follow up, as he finds something else to take up his attention - either flattery, or some vicious political revenge move.

 

He claims he's settled the war in Gaza. But he's done nothing to disarm Hamas. He claims if they don't disarm, then the Americans will get in there, and "blow the crap out of them".

It's all BS - he has no strategic plans to ensure that talks with Hamas produce meaningful results. He has no communications lines established with Hamas, he speaks to them through his Presidential media outbursts. Hamas regard him as just a mouthy fool, and rightfully so.

 

Hamas fighters have come out from hiding, now the bombing has stopped, are carrying good weaponry and driving new pickups - and are set on establishing their power base in Gaza and the Middle East once again.

 

https://www.watoday.com.au/world/north-america/after-the-extraordinary-moment-of-trump-s-mid-east-peace-plan-here-come-the-morning-after-blues-20251016-p5n339.html

[Jerry_Atrick]

Had been laid up in London with a jimmied leg. With a phone and tablet, I'm not going to respond to much, but from the conversation above, I am going to add by $0.02 worth, +, in terms of volume, another dollar.

On 14/10/2025 at 11:38 PM, Marty_d said:

Actually it kind of is a game of cops and robbers (well, terrorists).

Mossad is meant to be one of the most effective intelligence agencies on earth. If this is true then they should have been able to identify most of the Hamas leadership.

Special forces should have taken them out with minimal collateral damage.

The entire Gaza strip didn't need to be leveled.

If you call guerilla warfare cops and robbers.. OK.  I am not sure what Mossad being one of the best  intelligence agencies on earth has got to do with the execution of the war. And they have had their problems in the recent past. Intelligence would be gathered by many points, yes. But, remember, your special forces are generally low in number compared to your military, and why you you offer your military (special forces or not) up to a much riskier operation than it needs to be? Just because they are willing to die for your country, doesn't mean they should be thrown the the lions. 

 

But, yeah, its an alternative. I am not sure I would be sending Aussie special forces in covert operations in a similar situation, though.

 

On 15/10/2025 at 12:03 AM, nomadpete said:

I consider all religious organisations as dangerous to the fabric of civilisation.

 

No thinking person would believe that Hamas has made a realistic 'peace deal'. Nor do they think that Hamas believes in a two state solution. They simply wish to wipe out all the other mob - military and civillians alike.

 

BUT....

 

All that applies to the Israrlies equally.

 

Peace? Bullshit!

 

Forty years ago, a distant acquaintance who worked in the middle east once told me... "The only way to get peace in ME? .... Turn it all into glass"

 

Is that what you suggest, bit by bit, Jerry? Killing all Palestinians won't solve the christian/jew/moslem/power problem. Even when all Palestinians are gone, there is now so much hate that the warring will simply move along to another nearby place.

I agree that the peace deal isn't really worth the paper it is written on (if it is on paper). Hamas do want to wipe out the other mob, but despite what has happend in this war, I am not sure it applies equally to the Israelis, at least where the facts are concerned. Yes, no doubt there are Israelis (and probably more than at any other time except before 1947 UN resolution) that do, but lets look at the facts, given that in wars, when you take territory, you usually keep it unless someone forcibly takes it off you:

• The UN passed a resolution dividing up the land.. you know in accordance with international law. Both sides wanted the lot, but one mob was willing to compromise and declared independence. The very next day, the other mob and 5 Arab nations piled in with a war against the ewly born Israel. OK, it was only a day old at that point. The Arabs lost and Israel ended up with more land. That sort of happens with war.
• In 1967, Israel takes the Sinai at the end of the 6 day war.  This is now 20 years after the declaration of Israel. How many years after Christians were driven out by Muslims (mid 90's) did the fighting continue? Wasn't long. 
• Anyway in 1973, Israel returns the Sinai in exchange for peace. How long did that peace last? Well, it didn't, but a full scale war was launched again in 1978. Some 30 years after the declaration of independence. Israel almost lost this one because (my recollection), like 1967, they were tipped off by Jordan and were going to do a pre-emptive strike, but the US told them to hold off, and if the invasion came, the US would help. Well, the invasion came and the US did not initially help. Israel were "on the ropes" and the PM at the time decided to threaten to use the worst kept secret, being nuclear weapons. At that point, the US decided to help by sendinf supplies.. note, up until that time, Israel had no help (yes, it purchased weapons from European states, but that was about it). 
• Anwar Sadat is starting to make peace with Israel and is killed by Egyptian officers...  Yes, there was an Itzak Rabin was killed by ISraeli far right for going with the Olso accords.. I think that was in the early 90s.
• Year 2000, Palestinians are offered Gaza and 96% of the West Bank.. Who rejected them to keep the fight? Yasar Arafat. 
• The IDF still try and warn/give time for civilians to get out of the way.. Its practical help in this war is questionable, but what other miltiary does that?

 

Yes, there are Israelies that want all of it... but not on a systematic basis. And yes, the hatred runs deep such that peace in the ME is a virtual impossibility.

 

BTW, I have never said I wanted killing of any, let alone all Palestinians. My question was simply what would you (collectively) do that was different (that was practical, too). You country was attacked and they people attacked will continue. Sadly, this sort of thing has been happening with humanity from the dawn of time. Personally, if I could wave a wand and fix things, one of the first things I would do is rewire peoples' brains to not pay attention to religion.

 

On 15/10/2025 at 6:43 AM, rgmwa said:

Israel's relentless bombing and destruction in Gaza and displacement and killing of civilians will have created plenty of incentive for new recruits to join Hamas and other anti-Israeli factions. Israel obviously had to act after the October 7 attack by Hamas, and they were justified in trying to destroy the organisation, but in many ways it will have only made the long term problem worse. 

I don't think it has helped, but anti-semitism is one of the oldest hates; Remember, Hamas wasn't set up by Palestine; it was set up by Iran.. to kill Jews.. Palestinian security has very little to do with it. 

 

On 15/10/2025 at 10:10 AM, octave said:

When you say Gazans, do you mean Hamas or other terrorists or literally all Gazans?

 

I doubt that the little girl in this video was guilty of anything. Of course, this round of barbarity started with an act of barbarity 2 years ago, and so on back to did dispossession of the Palestinians at the creation of the nation of Israel. The problem will never be solved until the root cause is addressed in a way that gives dignity a safety to both sides.

 

The brutal death of a child is heartbreaking, whatever that childs that child's nationality or religion.

 

 

 

In answer to your first question, Hamas, really.

 

That is a very sad video - just watched it. But tragically, this is a feature of any war. When you say this act of barbarity, exactly what you referring to? Purely, the killing of the family? Yes, thatis barbaric. But who, and how? There is nothing in the clip that that I can see that indicates the car was intentionally targetted, as opposed to being caught in the cross fire. I am not sure there were Israeli soldiers baying for blood, peering inside the car, seeing a little girl and shooting her. We know there was a tank next to them and there were shots being fired and the sound of projectiles being fired. It may have been intentional to kill who was in the car (it sounds like it was a war zone, so there could be many reasons - for example, suspicion of Hamas movements, etc). It could have been Hamas or Irraelis fire or both. We don't know. 

 

Don't get me wrong - it is horrendous and we should do anything we can to stop it, but simply forcing Israel to stop hunting Hamas will guarantee it will continue for ever and a day. Israel levelling Gaza, and Gaza still being run by Hamas will probably ensure it, too.. 

 

On the disposesson of Palestinians, a little bit of context has to be brought in. Yes, Palestinians were disposessed. Also, during the Nakbah, there is at least testimony (not in a court, of course) by Palestinians who said their grandparents were asked by the Palestinian militia to leave the land and it will be returned when the Jews were defeated. The Jews apparently offered Palestinians to stay on a lot of the land as long as they didn't fight.. Palestinians, probably justifiably, decided to fight. Except, the land was about 6% owned by Jews, 7% owned and leased by Palestinians, leaving 87% unowned or leased. Which is different to most wars, but:

• Are we prepared to give full ownership of the land we own in Australia back to the Aboriginals?
• Is anyone calling for Prussia to be returned to Germany?
• Until the Ukraine war, was anyone calling for Crimea to be returned to Ukraine?
• Is anyone fighting for Christian Kosovans to be returned to Kosov?
• Is anyone fighting for Califorinia to be returned to Mexico, or the whole of the Northeren Americas to be returned to the native Americans?
• Land for the Kurds displaced? the different African states, etc. 

No, after a while, people accept a new order (yes, in the case if Australia, there is land rights, but it ain't quite the same), and they adjust to it, Why, after nearly 80 years, is this different? At least the Jews owned almost equal to what was owned and leased.  And at least they were willing to share it.  If it were accepted even 30 years ago, and if Arafat had accepted the Camp David accords, imagine how much better Palestinian life would be? Or are we asserting that Israel would still be killing Palestinians? Except, since 1947, what War did Israel start? 

 

Because, for Hamas and the Muslim Bortherhood, it has nothing to do with Palestinians - they are the pawn in all of this. They just want the Jews out..and dead. 

 

On 16/10/2025 at 12:44 AM, kgwilson said:

Humanity has never learned the lessons of the past. Bomber Harris advocated systematic bombing of German cities in an attempt to break the German morale. It didn't work as it hadn't when the Germans were bombing the UK in the Blitz. In Germany it was also an attempt to reduce labour and industrial output. Didn't work either as the Nazis just got slave labour to resolve this.

 

Netanyahu is being propped up by his ultra right wing. If he is ousted he is gone & will be prosecuted & jailed. More likely he will be given asylum by Trump like Assad was by Putin.

 

The majority of Israelis wanted negotiations more than a year ago & the protests since have been growing all the time. Before the war Israel had systematically been taking over the West Bank, detaining and killing Palestinians so it is little wonder that Hamas came in to existence, then power & started to fight back, the wall went up & rockets started flying & eventually the catastrophic events of 2 years ago. This gave Netanyahu & his cronies their opportunity, their aim being to get rid of ALL Palestinians once & for all.

 

Will Trumps declaration of Peace last. Not on your Nellie.

I agree with most of this post, but not all (I am an argumentative SOB). Trump may give Netanyahu asylum, but that would be dangerous as he won;t be there forever, and it can be revoked by the democrats. He will apply pressure, and has already suggested to the Israelis that Netanyahu be pardoned for any corruption charges. 

 

You are right the Israelis have protested for negotiations for more than a year. However, Hamas and the Muslim brotherhood refuse to negotiate, so it is quite difficult. So, Netanyahu made it simple for them - return the hostages and Hamas to disarm. Then as the war progressed and the casualties mounted, Qatar and I think Saudi but may be wrong, got involved and tried to broker something with the yanks. What brought Hamas seriously to the table in the end? Hate to say this, Chump (maybe I will call him Trump this time). It wasn't any particularly great feat of negotiating.. it wasd threats - basically, come to the table and accept a ceasefire, or, the inference was America would get involved, and it won't end well. While the protests were calling for negotiations, they weren't against the war. That is a common misconception. 

 

Israel took the West Bank after the 67 war. One of the issues is that the West Bank is strategically advantageous militarily. They aren't going to give it up soon. Yes, the UN passed resolutions they should, but if someone wages war on you, and you win and with it the spoils of territory, expecially with a military advantage, why would you listen to anyone telling you to give it up. And, why were they? No other country that has had the same - Russia included - were asked to give up land they took, even when they started the war (Crimea). The UN usually bends over backwards to styop further bloodshed. 

 

Hamas came into existence, not because of the West Bank, but because the Palestinian Liberation Army couldn't get the job done. The PLA still exists, but like the PLO is pretty toothless, as Hamas has taken over both politically and militarily the Gaza strip, anyway. And, apparently, have been spotted in the West Bank, too. In fact, if Hamas was started because of the West Bank, surely they would be situated there?

 

Anyway, it is clear why Hamas was started.. As the PLA couldn't get the job done, Iran needed another proxy to target Israel, and the Jews. Read the Hamas Charter.. it is pretty chilling reading.

 

And this comes to my point earlier about why, after almost 80 years, people are still banging on about this and why the fighting is continuing. If this were any other people, it would have fizzled out long ago. But, Hamas, the Muslim Bortherhood, and Iran who funds them hates jews. It's aas simple as that. They do not care one iota for the Palestinian people.. if you believe they do, just look at the streets of Gaza now, and who is doing the killing of Palestinians. It aint the Israelis (yes, there was the one where people running to the IDF were ordered to stop and they didn't so they opened fire). And remember, there are c. 2m Palestinians in Gaza; there are also c. 1.9m Palestinians in Israel, so if Israel were about killing all the Palestinians, they would have a lot do to in their home patch. Oh, and the Palestinians living in Israel have all of the rights of Jews (and others); voting, they have had a deputy PM just in the last government, have held cheif justice of the Supreme court, etc. And Gaza was supplied water and electricity by Israel; Gazans were allowed to work and live their daily lives in Israel, receive medical care in Israel when require, etc until the . All tabled in these forums previously with all the evidence.  Yet people seem to forget all of this. Why?

 

You would be surprised at how many videos pop up where Paletinians in Gaza, at the end of their mental tether, are explosively screaming about how they hate Hamas, not the Israelis. Yes, this is small compared to the 60K killed, but the point is, I don't think we get to see the full story. I don't see the protesters now coming out and calling for Hamas to put in a ceasfire against the Palestinians? Why, if they are so worried about the Palestinian plight? As one US presenter put it, no Jews, no news.  I think that says it all.

 

Edited 11 minutes ago by Jerry_Atrick